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There is an extremely bright line. Can the software automatically make lane changes? Can it initiate turns? Can it decide to make non-emergency stops at lights

There is an extremely bright line. Can the software automatically make lane changes? Can it initiate turns? Can it decide to make non-emergency stops at lights and signs? Can it accelerate from a stop? What is the expected level of human intervention?

XorNot 5y ago
That determines what the system is. The question I'm posing is, how do you prove it works to an independent authority? It would be extremely reasonable for us to regulate along these lines, but I'm also absolutely willing to bet that Tesla and every other system would get through an approval process just fine. Which sort of loops around too a wider issue: if self driving is a priority, then it needs to be a government, collective priority for public safety and development. I.e. independent reading institutes, a suite of diverse randomised tests and yes: because this is no longer "on the driver" for accidents then both the government and company will be taking responsibility for failures. The issue is that the law of the land is: these systems aren't illegal, and the driver is responsible for how the car handles including any automation they engage. To make any progress you have to break driver responsibility - or use that bright line and just outlaw the whole lot.
- jowsie 5y ago
  >but I'm also absolutely willing to bet that Tesla and every other system would get through an approval process just fine. It would be Diesel Gate all over again. The testing would have to be documented somewhere and the car could just be trained for the test scenarios. Considering how often Tesla like to massage their numbers (nurburgring data, sales figures in basically every country, most recently Australia, the big asterisk next to their 1.9s 0-60 run, etc etc) I can't trust they wouldn't train directly for the test and neglect everything else just so they can have the best headlines once again.

XorNot 5y ago

That determines what the system is. The question I'm posing is, how do you prove it works to an independent authority? It would be extremely reasonable for us to regulate along these lines, but I'm also absolutely willing to bet that Tesla and every other system would get through an approval process just fine. Which sort of loops around too a wider issue: if self driving is a priority, then it needs to be a government, collective priority for public safety and development. I.e. independent reading institutes, a suite of diverse randomised tests and yes: because this is no longer "on the driver" for accidents then both the government and company will be taking responsibility for failures. The issue is that the law of the land is: these systems aren't illegal, and the driver is responsible for how the car handles including any automation they engage. To make any progress you have to break driver responsibility - or use that bright line and just outlaw the whole lot.

jowsie 5y ago
>but I'm also absolutely willing to bet that Tesla and every other system would get through an approval process just fine. It would be Diesel Gate all over again. The testing would have to be documented somewhere and the car could just be trained for the test scenarios. Considering how often Tesla like to massage their numbers (nurburgring data, sales figures in basically every country, most recently Australia, the big asterisk next to their 1.9s 0-60 run, etc etc) I can't trust they wouldn't train directly for the test and neglect everything else just so they can have the best headlines once again.