3 ms·

Amusingly trees are like human races. They aren’t a meaningful biological category[1]. [1] https://eukaryotewritesblog.com/2021/05/02/theres-no-such-thing-as-a

by User23 5y ago

Amusingly trees are like human races. They aren’t a meaningful biological category[1]. [1] https://eukaryotewritesblog.com/2021/05/02/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-tree/ https://eukaryotewritesblog.com/2021/05/02/theres-no-such-th...

animal_spirits 5y ago
Cool! Thanks for the link
smallerfish 5y ago
I'm not sure your link backs up the assertion. For example: "Citrus fruits are all derived from a common fruit, and so are apples and pears, and plums and apricots – but an apple and an orange, or a fig and a peach, do not share a fruit ancestor." What he's saying is that trees evolved convergently, i.e. "Convergent evolution is the independent evolution of similar features in species of different periods or epochs in time" (wikipedia). That's not the case (as far as I know) with humans, and human races.
- culi 5y ago
  I think what User23 meant was that our cultural constructs of race are usually based on some key phenotypical differences. A North African person is more closely related to Europeans on average than to a South African person yet they're usually classed as the same "race". But you're right that User23 is still incorrect as that's not proof that melanin-rich skin evolved multiple times independently
  - choeger 5y ago
    Isn't it actually melanin-poor skin that evolved, assuming out-of-africa is true?
    - pvaldes 5y ago
      Melanin rich skin evolved at least twice probably. Blacks and Australian natives share similar melanin amounts but are different genetically.
culi 5y ago
It's true that "tree" and "Black" are both not meaningful biological categories but the reason why is very different. Trees evolved thousands of times and we have a large number of species that could either be shrubs or trees. The reason why our ideas of race are not meaningful biological categories is more similar to why certain "species" of citrus aren't meaningful categories. Because phylogenetic evidence turns out to show that the genetic distinction is not meaningful or distinct enough to separate them into separate taxons. Which could be to hybridization, or just plain lack of genetic differences

by User23 5y ago

animal_spirits 5y ago

Cool! Thanks for the link

smallerfish 5y ago

I'm not sure your link backs up the assertion. For example: "Citrus fruits are all derived from a common fruit, and so are apples and pears, and plums and apricots – but an apple and an orange, or a fig and a peach, do not share a fruit ancestor." What he's saying is that trees evolved convergently, i.e. "Convergent evolution is the independent evolution of similar features in species of different periods or epochs in time" (wikipedia). That's not the case (as far as I know) with humans, and human races.

culi 5y ago
I think what User23 meant was that our cultural constructs of race are usually based on some key phenotypical differences. A North African person is more closely related to Europeans on average than to a South African person yet they're usually classed as the same "race". But you're right that User23 is still incorrect as that's not proof that melanin-rich skin evolved multiple times independently
- choeger 5y ago
  Isn't it actually melanin-poor skin that evolved, assuming out-of-africa is true?
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    Melanin rich skin evolved at least twice probably. Blacks and Australian natives share similar melanin amounts but are different genetically.

culi 5y ago

It's true that "tree" and "Black" are both not meaningful biological categories but the reason why is very different. Trees evolved thousands of times and we have a large number of species that could either be shrubs or trees. The reason why our ideas of race are not meaningful biological categories is more similar to why certain "species" of citrus aren't meaningful categories. Because phylogenetic evidence turns out to show that the genetic distinction is not meaningful or distinct enough to separate them into separate taxons. Which could be to hybridization, or just plain lack of genetic differences