5 ms·

I cannot even eat food high in trace amines or I get anxious as all get out and I am up all night. Seriously, chocolate gives me insomnia. So I have no idea how

I cannot even eat food high in trace amines or I get anxious as all get out and I am up all night. Seriously, chocolate gives me insomnia. So I have no idea how someone could handle these drugs. I think this happens to me for two reasons. I am low in BH4 which limits my ability to metabolize amino acids down the common pathway and thinks like phenylalanine get metabolized dow the alternative pathways creating PEA and Tyramine. But also I have the mental illness associated changes in TAAR1 and VMAT1 and VMAT2. (I have schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder.) I never understood why people would want to take drugs to see the shit and live the suffering I have all my life but that's where we are...

ipnon 5y ago
New York is fine for a visit but I'd never want to live there.
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  My whole life has been "Escape from New York". :)
capableweb 5y ago
> I never understood why people would want to take drugs to see the shit and live the suffering I have all my life but that's where we are... Well, it sounds like you're having a bad time in your life with all of those things, and as a drug user myself, that's not the goal with my usage, and neither the effects it has on me.
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  Yes, I can see how a bit of this would help someone not as sensitive to trace amines as I am. I am in no way ADHD and when I was fist seeing a doc for my mental illness they thought I was an prescribe me methamphetamines which threw me into a horrific manic state. It seems like the whole world need to get "up" and I feel like I am the only one trying to get "down". =/ Anyway, vodka is the greatest drug for me, as is klonopin. Klonopin can take me right out of my schizoaffective states. But I eat low protein, only seafood and take a bunch of zinc which all seems to help. I wonder, if people do well on these trace amines, what is the blockage in the genetics? Not enough B6 to make the trace amines I wonder? Too much zinc?
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    Sounds like you have some malfunctioning enzymes somewhere. Genetic testing (through a reputable medical provider, not 23andme) may provide some interesting results
    - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
      Yes, I have two runs from 23 and me one of the version four chip in one of the version five chip. I’m also waiting for my full genome that should be coming in about 5 to 6 weeks. I’m well aware of my genetics and how they helped cause my mood disorder and my various sensitivities. I spent the last 12 years teaching myself genetics and nutritional genetics as well as neuropsychology so I could figure out what was happening to my family. Turns out we have Sami heritage we never knew we had which I think is part of the disconnect.
      - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
        Based on what you've said about amines - I suspect you don't eat potatoes or tomatoes, right? There was a recent discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29131983 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29131983 I seem to have a very mild version of the same thing, but I can have one of the 'dangerous' types of amine rich food every so often. Anyway, I commend your engineers approach and working out what is good for you.
        FollowingTheDao 5y ago
        Every so often is fine for me now as well but it is a crap shoot that sometime I regret. But now since I know what it is it does not bother me as much. If you are having trouble with amines you should think about trying high dose riboflavin. Riboflavin is the raw material for the enzyme (Monoamine Oxidase (MAOA and MAOB)) which metabolize all the amines. COMT does as well and magnesium and SAMe will help assist off that is your slow enzyme. Before I replenished my riboflavin I could not eat even lower amine foods. Riboflavin was my cure but then it started making me depressed which is what one would expect. Do you get migraines?
netizen-936824 5y ago
This is a good example how how very different people's biochemistry can be, resulting in massively different perception and effects of exogenous compounds. While these compounds don't agree at all with you, there are many of us who find these drugs highly useful. I hope you can find relief some way, mental illnesses are no fun to deal with.
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  Yes this is true. I think knowing your genetics would go a long way knowing which drugs might help you understand the pathway to stability. I am pretty good now, I’m disabled so I don’t have to work which was one of my hardest challenges. But I’m still so reactive to my environment that it’s just a hassle most times and I have to be careful. I will say this without a tinfoil hat on my head that I know electromagnetic radiation from household wiring and now I’m finding from Wi-Fi and smart phones are a trigger for me.
wallscratch 5y ago
Chocolate also has caffeine, which may be what’s keeping you up.
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  Yes, maybe the caffeine, theobromine and PEA all together effect me. But I know my phenylalanine is high from blood tests.
heavyset_go 5y ago
5HT2A mediated visual changes are different than dopamine induced hallucinations and delusions. The former are mostly recognized as being fake to the person experiencing them, and the latter are hard to impossible to discern from reality. Psychotic delusions and hallucinations are thought to be the result of problems with dopaminergic neurons, and 5HT2A exists on serotonergic neurons. Psychedelic PEAs work on serotonergic neurons mostly to produce their hallucinatory effects.
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  I would say that my experiences have always been on the psychedelic bent. I used to “see around” objects and peoples faces would change on TV when I was a kid. HTR2A is a big one for me. I have the homozygous minor alleles in rs594242 and rs582385 both having been studied and linked to mood outcomes. But the other key factor is glutamate which leads to the ego dissolution. This could be from my GRiN2B receptors. (NMDA) where I have several very low frequency polymorphisms. It’s speaking of serotonin my TAAR6 gene is so whacked. And they found it in my set lease it led to hire serotonin levels in the brain. I’ve only had one or two times where I had hallucinations and not visions. But I know I have dopamine issues as well because I just can’t break down the amino acids that help make all the catecholamines.
cat199 5y ago
> I am low in BH4 which limits my ability to metabolize amino acids down the common pathway and thinks like phenylalanine get metabolized dow the alternative pathways creating PEA and Tyramine. But also I have the mental illness associated changes in TAAR1 and VMAT1 and VMAT2. (I have schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder.) this is an amazing amount of self knowledge about these topics - i'm sure some came from introspection, but for the rest - how did you find these things out or are you in the field? seems like useful knowledge for people to have, aside from problems with over self diagnosis of course
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  20 years ago my life finally fell apart from my mood disorder that’s heavily genetic in my family on my mother side. So while on disability after leaving my job as a network engineer I decided to go full in and try to find out what part of our genetics was causing this problem. I had the benefit of living next to a large research hospital which I stayed in three or four times during some of my episodes. But once the Internet really came around my learning grew exponentially. I have the added benefit of probably having aspergers as well. I also perform countless experiments on myself using different combinations of supplements in diet. Each failure let me to great information about what was going on. Now I’m at a place where I only need klonopin on occasion. This is coming from being on four different medication‘s at once. And thanks.
pmoriarty 5y ago
"I never understood why people would want to take drugs to see the shit and live the suffering I have all my life but that's where we are..." MDMA helped this man with aspergers: [1] And here is a woman talking about how psilocybin helped her cope with cancer-related depression: [2] Finally, here is a "normal" woman talking about her experiences on LSD: [3] Hopefully this will give you some insight in to why people take psychedelics. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0 [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us7qLnTPhiI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us7qLnTPhiI [3] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si-jQeWSDKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si-jQeWSDKc
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  [1] - That video was interesting since I know MDMA has a strong effect on norepinephrine and I have had that same experience of calm taking clonidine which stimulates the a2 receptors. I have a similar experience to Larry and therapists have said in the past I have Asperger's. I am low on the classic catecholamines so this makes sense. [2] - It is normal to be depressed when you have cancer so I have no opinion on that. To me that is something I work through cognitively. I would never tells someone not to take it though because if you have never done any psychological work and then you get cancer, well, that's a long reach. It happened to my father. He never has a thing wrong with him his whole life, then he got Pancreatic cancer at 71 and suddenly saw his mortality. Taking him to chemo I was trying to help him through this but the look on his face told me it was too late. I would have liked for him to have one beautiful experience. [3] - All things are just appearances. That is the only lesson one should learn who is "normal" taking LSD. I have said those same things in manic states as my friends would attest to, and I still have those experiences. You know, after a while, they are just normal like everything else. The first time I lived in Hawaii I was amazed. Then after a few years it was just like any other place.
tonguez 5y ago
“ I never understood why people would want to take drugs to see the shit and live the suffering I have all my life but that's where we are...” Maybe you just have no idea what you’re talking about and these drugs don’t produce an experience that resembles “schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder” in most people.
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  Well I was more talking about the schizoaffective part. Ego dissolution is a large part of a lot of peoples schizo affective/schizophrenic experiences. But I remember growing up when my friend started taking psychedelics and told me about their experiences, well that’s when I knew there was really something different about me because I never took the drugs yet their experiences were familiar. I just don’t think we’re all supposed to see the world in the same way. I don’t mind my schizo affective side as much as I do my bipolar side. The bipolar part is much more disruptive in my life. But I think there’s a place for people who don’t see these things. They are valuable to me. You are valuable to me just as you are. Maybe it’s not that you need to take his medication’s but to listen to people like me when I say the ego is an illusion.
jjtheblunt 5y ago
How did you learn you're low in BH4 ?
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  I begged my doctor for a serum amino acid test. And the pattern Of high amino acids I had on a normal protein diet were trademark low BH4. All of these were high. Arganine, tyrosine and phenylalanine. And my tryptophan was normal. All of my branched-chain amino acids were high as well telling me I had a B6 deficiency.
wavegeek 5y ago
These symptoms can also he a manifestation of histamine intolerance. If your enzymes that break down histamines (diamine oxidase - DAO or histamine methyltransferase - HMT) are faulty it will be a problem. High histamines give me the opposite of the effect of taking anti-histamines, which normally make you drowsy. You would be amazed how many foods are high in histamines. Basically anything that is really flavoursome. And many additives either inhibit histamine breakdown or promote release from the mast cells. Not to mention MCAS mast cell activation syndrome.
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  Yes histamine, but I need to correct some of what you said. It is common people think diamine oxidase break down histamine because the Amiloride-sensitive amine oxidase (AOC1) used to be called DAO in the genetic research. https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P19801 https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P19801 D-amino-acid oxidase (DAO) is different. https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P14920 https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P14920 And the other gene is HNMT (Histamine N-methyltransferase). I have never had histamine issues, but just to not that most ant-psychotics work on the H1 receptor and they never worked for me.

ipnon 5y ago

New York is fine for a visit but I'd never want to live there.

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
My whole life has been "Escape from New York". :)

capableweb 5y ago

> I never understood why people would want to take drugs to see the shit and live the suffering I have all my life but that's where we are... Well, it sounds like you're having a bad time in your life with all of those things, and as a drug user myself, that's not the goal with my usage, and neither the effects it has on me.

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
Yes, I can see how a bit of this would help someone not as sensitive to trace amines as I am. I am in no way ADHD and when I was fist seeing a doc for my mental illness they thought I was an prescribe me methamphetamines which threw me into a horrific manic state. It seems like the whole world need to get "up" and I feel like I am the only one trying to get "down". =/ Anyway, vodka is the greatest drug for me, as is klonopin. Klonopin can take me right out of my schizoaffective states. But I eat low protein, only seafood and take a bunch of zinc which all seems to help. I wonder, if people do well on these trace amines, what is the blockage in the genetics? Not enough B6 to make the trace amines I wonder? Too much zinc?
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  Sounds like you have some malfunctioning enzymes somewhere. Genetic testing (through a reputable medical provider, not 23andme) may provide some interesting results
  - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
    Yes, I have two runs from 23 and me one of the version four chip in one of the version five chip. I’m also waiting for my full genome that should be coming in about 5 to 6 weeks. I’m well aware of my genetics and how they helped cause my mood disorder and my various sensitivities. I spent the last 12 years teaching myself genetics and nutritional genetics as well as neuropsychology so I could figure out what was happening to my family. Turns out we have Sami heritage we never knew we had which I think is part of the disconnect.
    - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
      Based on what you've said about amines - I suspect you don't eat potatoes or tomatoes, right? There was a recent discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29131983 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29131983 I seem to have a very mild version of the same thing, but I can have one of the 'dangerous' types of amine rich food every so often. Anyway, I commend your engineers approach and working out what is good for you.
      - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
        Every so often is fine for me now as well but it is a crap shoot that sometime I regret. But now since I know what it is it does not bother me as much. If you are having trouble with amines you should think about trying high dose riboflavin. Riboflavin is the raw material for the enzyme (Monoamine Oxidase (MAOA and MAOB)) which metabolize all the amines. COMT does as well and magnesium and SAMe will help assist off that is your slow enzyme. Before I replenished my riboflavin I could not eat even lower amine foods. Riboflavin was my cure but then it started making me depressed which is what one would expect. Do you get migraines?

netizen-936824 5y ago

This is a good example how how very different people's biochemistry can be, resulting in massively different perception and effects of exogenous compounds. While these compounds don't agree at all with you, there are many of us who find these drugs highly useful. I hope you can find relief some way, mental illnesses are no fun to deal with.

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
Yes this is true. I think knowing your genetics would go a long way knowing which drugs might help you understand the pathway to stability. I am pretty good now, I’m disabled so I don’t have to work which was one of my hardest challenges. But I’m still so reactive to my environment that it’s just a hassle most times and I have to be careful. I will say this without a tinfoil hat on my head that I know electromagnetic radiation from household wiring and now I’m finding from Wi-Fi and smart phones are a trigger for me.

wallscratch 5y ago

Chocolate also has caffeine, which may be what’s keeping you up.

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
Yes, maybe the caffeine, theobromine and PEA all together effect me. But I know my phenylalanine is high from blood tests.

heavyset_go 5y ago

5HT2A mediated visual changes are different than dopamine induced hallucinations and delusions. The former are mostly recognized as being fake to the person experiencing them, and the latter are hard to impossible to discern from reality. Psychotic delusions and hallucinations are thought to be the result of problems with dopaminergic neurons, and 5HT2A exists on serotonergic neurons. Psychedelic PEAs work on serotonergic neurons mostly to produce their hallucinatory effects.

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
I would say that my experiences have always been on the psychedelic bent. I used to “see around” objects and peoples faces would change on TV when I was a kid. HTR2A is a big one for me. I have the homozygous minor alleles in rs594242 and rs582385 both having been studied and linked to mood outcomes. But the other key factor is glutamate which leads to the ego dissolution. This could be from my GRiN2B receptors. (NMDA) where I have several very low frequency polymorphisms. It’s speaking of serotonin my TAAR6 gene is so whacked. And they found it in my set lease it led to hire serotonin levels in the brain. I’ve only had one or two times where I had hallucinations and not visions. But I know I have dopamine issues as well because I just can’t break down the amino acids that help make all the catecholamines.

cat199 5y ago

> I am low in BH4 which limits my ability to metabolize amino acids down the common pathway and thinks like phenylalanine get metabolized dow the alternative pathways creating PEA and Tyramine. But also I have the mental illness associated changes in TAAR1 and VMAT1 and VMAT2. (I have schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder.) this is an amazing amount of self knowledge about these topics - i'm sure some came from introspection, but for the rest - how did you find these things out or are you in the field? seems like useful knowledge for people to have, aside from problems with over self diagnosis of course

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
20 years ago my life finally fell apart from my mood disorder that’s heavily genetic in my family on my mother side. So while on disability after leaving my job as a network engineer I decided to go full in and try to find out what part of our genetics was causing this problem. I had the benefit of living next to a large research hospital which I stayed in three or four times during some of my episodes. But once the Internet really came around my learning grew exponentially. I have the added benefit of probably having aspergers as well. I also perform countless experiments on myself using different combinations of supplements in diet. Each failure let me to great information about what was going on. Now I’m at a place where I only need klonopin on occasion. This is coming from being on four different medication‘s at once. And thanks.

pmoriarty 5y ago

"I never understood why people would want to take drugs to see the shit and live the suffering I have all my life but that's where we are..." MDMA helped this man with aspergers: [1] And here is a woman talking about how psilocybin helped her cope with cancer-related depression: [2] Finally, here is a "normal" woman talking about her experiences on LSD: [3] Hopefully this will give you some insight in to why people take psychedelics. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0 [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us7qLnTPhiI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us7qLnTPhiI [3] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si-jQeWSDKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si-jQeWSDKc

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
[1] - That video was interesting since I know MDMA has a strong effect on norepinephrine and I have had that same experience of calm taking clonidine which stimulates the a2 receptors. I have a similar experience to Larry and therapists have said in the past I have Asperger's. I am low on the classic catecholamines so this makes sense. [2] - It is normal to be depressed when you have cancer so I have no opinion on that. To me that is something I work through cognitively. I would never tells someone not to take it though because if you have never done any psychological work and then you get cancer, well, that's a long reach. It happened to my father. He never has a thing wrong with him his whole life, then he got Pancreatic cancer at 71 and suddenly saw his mortality. Taking him to chemo I was trying to help him through this but the look on his face told me it was too late. I would have liked for him to have one beautiful experience. [3] - All things are just appearances. That is the only lesson one should learn who is "normal" taking LSD. I have said those same things in manic states as my friends would attest to, and I still have those experiences. You know, after a while, they are just normal like everything else. The first time I lived in Hawaii I was amazed. Then after a few years it was just like any other place.

tonguez 5y ago

“ I never understood why people would want to take drugs to see the shit and live the suffering I have all my life but that's where we are...” Maybe you just have no idea what you’re talking about and these drugs don’t produce an experience that resembles “schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder” in most people.

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
Well I was more talking about the schizoaffective part. Ego dissolution is a large part of a lot of peoples schizo affective/schizophrenic experiences. But I remember growing up when my friend started taking psychedelics and told me about their experiences, well that’s when I knew there was really something different about me because I never took the drugs yet their experiences were familiar. I just don’t think we’re all supposed to see the world in the same way. I don’t mind my schizo affective side as much as I do my bipolar side. The bipolar part is much more disruptive in my life. But I think there’s a place for people who don’t see these things. They are valuable to me. You are valuable to me just as you are. Maybe it’s not that you need to take his medication’s but to listen to people like me when I say the ego is an illusion.

jjtheblunt 5y ago

How did you learn you're low in BH4 ?

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
I begged my doctor for a serum amino acid test. And the pattern Of high amino acids I had on a normal protein diet were trademark low BH4. All of these were high. Arganine, tyrosine and phenylalanine. And my tryptophan was normal. All of my branched-chain amino acids were high as well telling me I had a B6 deficiency.

wavegeek 5y ago

These symptoms can also he a manifestation of histamine intolerance. If your enzymes that break down histamines (diamine oxidase - DAO or histamine methyltransferase - HMT) are faulty it will be a problem. High histamines give me the opposite of the effect of taking anti-histamines, which normally make you drowsy. You would be amazed how many foods are high in histamines. Basically anything that is really flavoursome. And many additives either inhibit histamine breakdown or promote release from the mast cells. Not to mention MCAS mast cell activation syndrome.

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
Yes histamine, but I need to correct some of what you said. It is common people think diamine oxidase break down histamine because the Amiloride-sensitive amine oxidase (AOC1) used to be called DAO in the genetic research. https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P19801 https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P19801 D-amino-acid oxidase (DAO) is different. https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P14920 https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P14920 And the other gene is HNMT (Histamine N-methyltransferase). I have never had histamine issues, but just to not that most ant-psychotics work on the H1 receptor and they never worked for me.