5 ms·

If you don't have many of these outlier biases then you're probably ok turning down the work because of poor cultural fit. But if you have a few more like this,

If you don't have many of these outlier biases then you're probably ok turning down the work because of poor cultural fit. But if you have a few more like this, then yes it could come across as petty. Also it is no fun to work with some whose anger is often surprising and then contagious. I said outlier above because I use Teams everyday and would never have thought anyone would dislike it let alone be angered by it. But some of the other comments echo your sentiment so perhaps there is something in my blindspot and I am glad for that.

piousfraud 5y ago
Agree -- I just don't understand why Teams would make someone so angry. There's so much more in Windows to be angry about, lmao. You must adapt to this Windows world that has been made for us -- it SUCKS, but... you adapt and you evolve and you learn ways to make your workflow work for you.
- afarrell 5y ago
  Or you could choose work at companies which primarily use OSX. They are common enough that this is feasible.
  - gonehome 5y ago
    A lot of companies that use macOS still rely on O365 and teams. What are the other options? Zoom? A lot of companies ban Zoom for security reasons and the connection to the CCP - even without that it's not really that much better than teams anyway. I think gathertown is pretty cool, but really all of these video chat services work well enough for what you need them for. Slack was probably my favorite of the bunch for non-video communication, but now that they've sold themselves to salesforce they'll probably wither away and die (or at best remain in stasis) like everything else that company acquires.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Your giving up does not mean others should. I have worked 40 years with practically no contact with anything MS-bound. (I have a few times had to chase down a bug in, uniquely, the MS port of a product; and used a full-screen Linux VM running on top of W7, elsewhere.) All the highest-paid programming jobs are not MS-bound.
- db579 5y ago
  It's the worst software I use on a day to day basis and it's not close. Granted that's on Linux which likely isn't Microsoft's main focus but still nothing else does this much this badly.
- kc10 5y ago
  We recently switched from Slack to Teams. IMO, it's the worst software that MS produced particularly when there is a baseline such as Slack that they can get inspired from. - All the channels are named General for every Team I am part of and it shows several "General" channels in my pinned list. Unless someone mentions me, I simply miss those conversations in other channels. - Search is pretty bad and it never works. Slack is pretty powerful and conversations in Slack are like KB. - If a screenshot is shared, sometimes it takes forever to show when I click it. - Every time I have to click 'New conversation' to post in a channel. - I use a 34" monitor, when I expand Teams app - it hardly uses 50% of the real estate. Content is centered and lot of whitespace (or blackspace in dark mode :p) I can go on and on.
  - jabroni_salad 5y ago
    Ironically my layout complaint is the polar opposite of yours, which is that I have smaller monitors and the minimum window size is really large, and for what? I would like to pop out a couple channels and have them always on-screen but they take up too much room. The current minimum width is 2x my smartphone which is kinda weird considering the app runs fine on the phone itself.
    - NumberWangMan 5y ago
      I don't think you are disagreeing, necessarily. You can't make Teams windows small, but they also don't make good use of whatever space you give them.
  - jnwatson 5y ago
    I preferred Teams over Slack. Teams has a much better Giphy integration. Since distributing memes is the most productive thing you can do with such a chat platform, Giphy is a must.
  - igetspam 5y ago
    Zoom in Linux. Holy smoldering dumpster fire. It's like schizophrenia manifest as software. Why can't it just stay out on a single virtual desktop? And basically anything coming out of Atlassian. How do you actually make software that's so indelible, while still being overly complex and sloooow? We all have software we hate, I'm sure. We must, right? Everyone uses slack
- Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
  I'm fine with Windows, as long as you disable the Microsoft account and don't look much at the start menu it mostly gets out of the way, and doesn't have UI latency. Teams, on the other hand, is an UI nightmare: - It has noticeable UI latency even in the best computers. - If you open a document within it, there is no way (that I know of) to get back to the chat to discuss something about the document, and then back to the document again. Once you go to a chat, the document is closed and you have to navigate the whole file system to find it again, click it, and wait for several seconds for it to open because lag. - If you search for messages with a given word, it shows you a list of the messages but it doesn't allow you to click on each to look at the context, which is what I want to do like 99% of the time I search for a message in a chat app. - If you have it set up to launch on startup, it will open private conversations and again, take a couple of seconds to close even if you're a fast clicker, because of its ubiquitous lag. Incredibly inconvenient if you use the laptop to give a presentation (of course I know that I can just set it to not open on startup, but I shouldn't need to do that. It makes sense to have it on startup 99% of the time as I almost always use it, just don't open a private chat and stick it in front of the screen with focus as the first thing you do!). - The filesystem is a nightmare (not only Teams' fault, but the whole Office ecosystem): files associated to a team, vs. files on someone's OneDrive, vs. SharePoint. After 2 years of using it, I still don't get the difference between OneDrive and SharePoint and I'm still not able to find anything without stumbling around, and I'm supposed to be a tech guy. - Sometimes you drag a file on a chat to send it to the other person and it makes you explicitly set permissions (using a laggy UI, of course) so the other person can access the file. Why would I send a file to a private chat if I didn't want to show it to the other person? - Calls don't scale. Quality degrades fast. - Sometimes a "team" will go bold for no reason. I click on it, and there is nothing new. Or a chat window will go blank and only come back when someone types a new message. Mind you, it has good things (I like the simplicity of partially typing a few names in the search box, having it autocomplete, click on the people and starting a group chat, for example) but the UI is a dumpster fire. I'm not anti-Microsoft as a whole (I like Windows, and kind of like Excel) and while I kind of tolerate it, there are plenty of reasons to get angry with it. And some of the issues above (like search not showing context, rendering it all but useless) are really basic, I don't know how they could even pass QA.
  - 5y ago
eyelidlessness 5y ago
For what it’s worth, there’s bias in the other direction too. I’ve only used Teams once: an intro for a role I wasn’t seeking and wasn’t particularly well defined yet, so we didn’t do much other than have a quick chat. I found it ridiculously painful to use the software, compared to Slack and Zoom (both of which I hate in different ways), or Google Meet (which is otherwise excellent, except why does it need to melt my entire computer?). You’re used to using it, you know its quirks, capabilities and workarounds. That’s an important bias to recognize too.
- xkgt 5y ago
  Teams is terrible to use for occasional use with personal login. I always had issues using it until I figured out that I need to empty the app cache before joining a meeting. Whenever I see a Teams link in an invite, I join 5 minutes ahead of time to clear my cache and test my audio and video. But I am told that there is no such problem in Teams with enterprise SSO. Also I have other friends who are quite happy with it. Personally, I can empathize more with OP. MS Teams is a terrible software which seems out of place among the modern era clients.
  - kyawzazaw 5y ago
    I used Teams with enterprise SSO. No problem at all.
warrenm 5y ago
The only place I ever see people dump on Teams is HN Everyone I know in the real world is between "it's a tool, I use it" and "this is pretty great" I'm mostly in the "this is pretty great" camp - especially when you look at the integrated versioning of shared files, screensharing, and video/audio conferencing

piousfraud 5y ago

Agree -- I just don't understand why Teams would make someone so angry. There's so much more in Windows to be angry about, lmao. You must adapt to this Windows world that has been made for us -- it SUCKS, but... you adapt and you evolve and you learn ways to make your workflow work for you.

afarrell 5y ago
Or you could choose work at companies which primarily use OSX. They are common enough that this is feasible.
- gonehome 5y ago
  A lot of companies that use macOS still rely on O365 and teams. What are the other options? Zoom? A lot of companies ban Zoom for security reasons and the connection to the CCP - even without that it's not really that much better than teams anyway. I think gathertown is pretty cool, but really all of these video chat services work well enough for what you need them for. Slack was probably my favorite of the bunch for non-video communication, but now that they've sold themselves to salesforce they'll probably wither away and die (or at best remain in stasis) like everything else that company acquires.
ncmncm 5y ago
Your giving up does not mean others should. I have worked 40 years with practically no contact with anything MS-bound. (I have a few times had to chase down a bug in, uniquely, the MS port of a product; and used a full-screen Linux VM running on top of W7, elsewhere.) All the highest-paid programming jobs are not MS-bound.
db579 5y ago
It's the worst software I use on a day to day basis and it's not close. Granted that's on Linux which likely isn't Microsoft's main focus but still nothing else does this much this badly.
kc10 5y ago
We recently switched from Slack to Teams. IMO, it's the worst software that MS produced particularly when there is a baseline such as Slack that they can get inspired from. - All the channels are named General for every Team I am part of and it shows several "General" channels in my pinned list. Unless someone mentions me, I simply miss those conversations in other channels. - Search is pretty bad and it never works. Slack is pretty powerful and conversations in Slack are like KB. - If a screenshot is shared, sometimes it takes forever to show when I click it. - Every time I have to click 'New conversation' to post in a channel. - I use a 34" monitor, when I expand Teams app - it hardly uses 50% of the real estate. Content is centered and lot of whitespace (or blackspace in dark mode :p) I can go on and on.
- jabroni_salad 5y ago
  Ironically my layout complaint is the polar opposite of yours, which is that I have smaller monitors and the minimum window size is really large, and for what? I would like to pop out a couple channels and have them always on-screen but they take up too much room. The current minimum width is 2x my smartphone which is kinda weird considering the app runs fine on the phone itself.
  - NumberWangMan 5y ago
    I don't think you are disagreeing, necessarily. You can't make Teams windows small, but they also don't make good use of whatever space you give them.
- jnwatson 5y ago
  I preferred Teams over Slack. Teams has a much better Giphy integration. Since distributing memes is the most productive thing you can do with such a chat platform, Giphy is a must.
- igetspam 5y ago
  Zoom in Linux. Holy smoldering dumpster fire. It's like schizophrenia manifest as software. Why can't it just stay out on a single virtual desktop? And basically anything coming out of Atlassian. How do you actually make software that's so indelible, while still being overly complex and sloooow? We all have software we hate, I'm sure. We must, right? Everyone uses slack
Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
I'm fine with Windows, as long as you disable the Microsoft account and don't look much at the start menu it mostly gets out of the way, and doesn't have UI latency. Teams, on the other hand, is an UI nightmare: - It has noticeable UI latency even in the best computers. - If you open a document within it, there is no way (that I know of) to get back to the chat to discuss something about the document, and then back to the document again. Once you go to a chat, the document is closed and you have to navigate the whole file system to find it again, click it, and wait for several seconds for it to open because lag. - If you search for messages with a given word, it shows you a list of the messages but it doesn't allow you to click on each to look at the context, which is what I want to do like 99% of the time I search for a message in a chat app. - If you have it set up to launch on startup, it will open private conversations and again, take a couple of seconds to close even if you're a fast clicker, because of its ubiquitous lag. Incredibly inconvenient if you use the laptop to give a presentation (of course I know that I can just set it to not open on startup, but I shouldn't need to do that. It makes sense to have it on startup 99% of the time as I almost always use it, just don't open a private chat and stick it in front of the screen with focus as the first thing you do!). - The filesystem is a nightmare (not only Teams' fault, but the whole Office ecosystem): files associated to a team, vs. files on someone's OneDrive, vs. SharePoint. After 2 years of using it, I still don't get the difference between OneDrive and SharePoint and I'm still not able to find anything without stumbling around, and I'm supposed to be a tech guy. - Sometimes you drag a file on a chat to send it to the other person and it makes you explicitly set permissions (using a laggy UI, of course) so the other person can access the file. Why would I send a file to a private chat if I didn't want to show it to the other person? - Calls don't scale. Quality degrades fast. - Sometimes a "team" will go bold for no reason. I click on it, and there is nothing new. Or a chat window will go blank and only come back when someone types a new message. Mind you, it has good things (I like the simplicity of partially typing a few names in the search box, having it autocomplete, click on the people and starting a group chat, for example) but the UI is a dumpster fire. I'm not anti-Microsoft as a whole (I like Windows, and kind of like Excel) and while I kind of tolerate it, there are plenty of reasons to get angry with it. And some of the issues above (like search not showing context, rendering it all but useless) are really basic, I don't know how they could even pass QA.
- 5y ago

eyelidlessness 5y ago

For what it’s worth, there’s bias in the other direction too. I’ve only used Teams once: an intro for a role I wasn’t seeking and wasn’t particularly well defined yet, so we didn’t do much other than have a quick chat. I found it ridiculously painful to use the software, compared to Slack and Zoom (both of which I hate in different ways), or Google Meet (which is otherwise excellent, except why does it need to melt my entire computer?). You’re used to using it, you know its quirks, capabilities and workarounds. That’s an important bias to recognize too.

xkgt 5y ago
Teams is terrible to use for occasional use with personal login. I always had issues using it until I figured out that I need to empty the app cache before joining a meeting. Whenever I see a Teams link in an invite, I join 5 minutes ahead of time to clear my cache and test my audio and video. But I am told that there is no such problem in Teams with enterprise SSO. Also I have other friends who are quite happy with it. Personally, I can empathize more with OP. MS Teams is a terrible software which seems out of place among the modern era clients.
- kyawzazaw 5y ago
  I used Teams with enterprise SSO. No problem at all.

warrenm 5y ago

The only place I ever see people dump on Teams is HN Everyone I know in the real world is between "it's a tool, I use it" and "this is pretty great" I'm mostly in the "this is pretty great" camp - especially when you look at the integrated versioning of shared files, screensharing, and video/audio conferencing