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>This week I was reading about how cholesterol studies are funded by the egg industry 60% of the time. They have a financial interest in the studies going their

>This week I was reading about how cholesterol studies are funded by the egg industry 60% of the time. They have a financial interest in the studies going their way and those studies do. Yet, many studies not funded by them go a very different route. The lipid hypothesis used to be a theory. A significant portion of the 'science' has been revealed to be illegitimate. Cholesterol had a 'scientific consensus' that it was evil causing virtually all cardiovascular disease. Used to... So what happened? In 2005 you now have to declare your conflicts of interest. Dieticians suddenly started falling bigtime to conflicts of interest. Virtually all of them publishing that cholesterol was evil had conflicts. They were funded heavily by the cereal companies. Science started looking at the lipid theory and it's all fraud. Cholesterol is no longer a boogy man. The lipid hypothesis has been downgraded to an invalid hypothesis. If you're taking statins, go talk to your doc and get off them. >Is it misinformation when you speak out against them? When the statin patents expired in 2016. It's not a surprise that the keto movement reformed in 2017. That cholesterol became a hypothesis and we found out what's really going on. Ancel Keys much later in life acknowledged that dietary cholesterol has absolutely nothing to do with blood cholesterol. The even more interesting since the conflict of cinterest change. People have been trying to understand what the actual real data says. Cholesterol may be real problem, but why? You'll notice... this was also published in 2017. https://blogs.webmd.com/from-our-archives/20170710/how-sugar-really-affects-your-cholesterol https://blogs.webmd.com/from-our-archives/20170710/how-sugar... Sugar in your diet damages cholesterol and makes your body struggle at cleaning it up. They found however, sugar isn't exactly the culprit. It's refined sugars and mostly candy and related high sugar things that are causing the problem. >The same can be said for a lot of things. You need to dig into the details to have an understanding of what's going on. Censorship is hard. Anything being labelled misinformation is immediately considered something that must be evaluated.

1415926535 5y ago
>The lipid hypothesis used to be a theory >Science started looking at the lipid theory and it's all fraud. I'm sorry, but even the most cursory of google searches indicates that this is not at all correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_hypothesis#Consensus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_hypothesis#Consensus
- sleepingadmin 5y ago
  Might I point out that 'hypothesis' is no better than 'guess' https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypothesis https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypothesis In fact, the lipid hypothesis having used to be a theory and being downgraded to hypothesis probably makes it far less than a hypothesis. The wikipage uses a single source for this 'consensus' and look again that magical date of 2017. What does this 'consensus' really conclude? >Consistent evidence from numerous and multiple different types of clinical and genetic studies unequivocally establishes that LDL causes ASCVD. The 'consensus' is that LDL causes illness. I dont believe that's in contention. What we are discussing is what causes LDL to cause illness and we are discovering decades of bad science.
mfer 5y ago
I've heard this before. There has been a large uptake in publications on cholesterol from the egg industry. But, you have to look beyond direct funding for a study. For example, I was looking at how one company give money to a non-profit they control. The non-profit funds the studies. Studies don't say they were funded by the company. Money was effectively laundered. Drug companies wanted to sell people on statins so they funded studies. Egg companies want people to eat eggs that are high in cholesterol so they fund studies. It's a mess of advertising. High cholesterol is know to lead to atherosclerosis[1]. It's one of the things that is involved in forming the plaques that build up in arteries which lead to forms of heart disease. What caught my attention was the long term studies around the people of loma lima. There are many vegans and vegetarians there who have been involved in long term studies. They have the same jobs as others in the area, live in the same area, and have many of the same habits of others with different diets. This has been great for looking at how diet affects things. Through those studies they've learned a lot about how diet affects cardiovascular disease. [1] https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/atherosclerosis https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/atherosclerosis
- sleepingadmin 5y ago
  >I've heard this before. There has been a large uptake in publications on cholesterol from the egg industry. But, you have to look beyond direct funding for a study. The problem was both side I'm sure. Cereal corps on one side, eggs on the other. One trying to counter the other. The beauty is that since 2005, that changed. It's not 100% but it was pretty effective. We can now see what's really going on. Ancel Keys himself has admitted and even pushed way later in life that dietary cholesterol doesn't matter. So the egg industry is innocent. >High cholesterol is know to lead to atherosclerosis[1]. It's one of the things that is involved in forming the plaques that build up in arteries which lead to forms of heart disease. Sure but what causes this is what matters. As explained in that webmd link I provided is that this is caused by sugar. Primarily refined sugars. I must admit I don't understand how sugar damages ldl >What caught my attention was the long term studies around the people of loma lima. There are many vegans and vegetarians there who have been involved in long term studies. They have the same jobs as others in the area, live in the same area, and have many of the same habits of others with different diets. This has been great for looking at how diet affects things. Through those studies they've learned a lot about how diet affects cardiovascular disease. That's the problem when cereal companies discovered they were the cause of so many diseases. As the saying goes, 'it's always the right time to do what is right' but they didn't want to be out of a job. They did the wrong thing. Afterall, Kellogg the man was an absolute scumbag responsible for the deaths of millions.
mike00632 5y ago
To be clear, you can study high cholesterol by simply having test subjects eat eggs. It reliably raises serum cholesterol in real time. It's also the reason why blood cholesterol tests have you fast before testing. Seeing what foods raise cholesterol isn't some mysterious science that we haven't cracked. All of the egg-industry funded studies which try to show that "dietary cholesterol doesn't affect serum cholesterol" are doing extreme mental and linguistic gymnastics. That statement, which can sometimes be shown to be true, only applies to dietary cholesterol in isolation from any other food, including cholesterol in isolation from the rest of the egg. Dietary cholesterol with saturated fat, which is the most common way that dietary cholesterol is consumed, does more to raise serum cholesterol than any other food. Oh, and also high cholesterol is a necessary condition for heart disease.
- sleepingadmin 5y ago
  >To be clear, you can study high cholesterol by simply having test subjects eat eggs. It reliably raises serum cholesterol in real time I must admit this goes against what I know. Lets look into it together; nothing older than 2005 will be allowed. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/cholesterol/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you... Harvard ought to be a good source: >The biggest influence on blood cholesterol level is the mix of fats and carbohydrates in your diet—not the amount of cholesterol you eat from food. Although it remains important to limit the amount of cholesterol you eat, especially if you have diabetes, for most people dietary cholesterol is not as problematic as once believed. So exactly what I said. What's important as well, 'especially if you have diabetes' because as I said, as did my webmd link say. It's sugar that is doing it. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/dietary-cholesterol-does-not-matter https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/dietary-cholesterol-doe... Healthline fantastic source because they source their sources. Literally the title says exactly what I said. >The amount of cholesterol in your diet and the amount of cholesterol in your blood are very different things. I could probably steal healthline's sources but I'll just leave it here. >All of the egg-industry funded studies which try to show that "dietary cholesterol doesn't affect serum cholesterol" are doing extreme mental and linguistic gymnastics. That statement, which can sometimes be shown to be true, only applies to dietary cholesterol in isolation from any other food, including cholesterol in isolation from the rest of the egg. Dietary cholesterol with saturated fat, which is the most common way that dietary cholesterol is consumed, does more to raise serum cholesterol than any other food. Oh, and also high cholesterol is a necessary condition for heart disease As I believe I conclude above. This 'egg-industry' boogyman is untrue. In fact, your body will continue to produce cholesterol for you if you eat a low cholesterol diet. It's obviously not sufficient, we are evolved to be on a high cholesterol diet. What a low cholesterol high sugar diet does is hide the huge dangerous spike in ldl that the sugar causes. This is a tremendously unhealthy approach to take when the correct approach is no sugar. Let's discuss what cholesterol is used for. Testosterone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Biochemistry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Biochemistry If you eat a low cholesterol diet. Your testosterone will be tremendously low. So for example about the same time this all came to light is some youtubers(try guys) went and got their testosterone checked and it was so low that they are either 100 years old, castrated or women. Virtually all those guys are probably incapable of having children and their doctors should be putting them on supplements to fix this asap. Huge health risks like osteoporosis is near certain. Did you know that fertility clinics is an amazing industry profitability wise. Customers lined up around the block waiting for months.
brandonmenc 5y ago
Since about 2010 heart disease has been on the rise again after decades of decline, which seems to coincide with the craze in keto type diets. Sugar consumption has declined slightly over that same time period.
- sleepingadmin 5y ago
  >Since about 2010 heart disease has been on the rise again after decades of decline, Curious, not sure I know exactly what this graph looks like. Also looking for this, it's hard to find. Some graphs certainly show an increase since 2000. But they are poor sources I wont share. As a Canadian, I find this source acceptable. https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/report-heart-disease-Canada-2018.html https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications... Which this source and others say the opposite. That the problem is getting better. Keto's re-emergence was in 2017 or so. So not really included in the data. Keto is also not a widely accepted diet, so impossible to account for in wide data like this. >which seems to coincide with the craze in keto type diets. Sugar consumption has declined slightly over that same time period. Take this for example: Again 2016... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC5040825/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC5040825/ Or a more recent one: https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30549-0/fulltext https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30549-0/fulltex... Modern science is very clear that it's sugar that is causing cardiovascular disease.
  - brandonmenc 5y ago
    I was using American numbers. Keto is pretty popular here - the Atkins diet exploded in popularity in the early 2000s. I don't think it's "clear" that sugar causes cardiovascular disease. I think what is clear is that obesity plus inactivity are overwhelmingly the main causes at a population level. Obesity can result from eating lots of sugar and/or from eating lots of fat. But just about every population level study shows that consuming red meat increases cardiovascular disease. We'll have to check in a decade or two from now to see what effects keto-style diets have on cardiovascular disease but as tasty as they are, I'm not going to take my chances with one. Everything in moderation.

1415926535 5y ago

>The lipid hypothesis used to be a theory >Science started looking at the lipid theory and it's all fraud. I'm sorry, but even the most cursory of google searches indicates that this is not at all correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_hypothesis#Consensus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_hypothesis#Consensus

sleepingadmin 5y ago
Might I point out that 'hypothesis' is no better than 'guess' https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypothesis https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypothesis In fact, the lipid hypothesis having used to be a theory and being downgraded to hypothesis probably makes it far less than a hypothesis. The wikipage uses a single source for this 'consensus' and look again that magical date of 2017. What does this 'consensus' really conclude? >Consistent evidence from numerous and multiple different types of clinical and genetic studies unequivocally establishes that LDL causes ASCVD. The 'consensus' is that LDL causes illness. I dont believe that's in contention. What we are discussing is what causes LDL to cause illness and we are discovering decades of bad science.

mfer 5y ago

I've heard this before. There has been a large uptake in publications on cholesterol from the egg industry. But, you have to look beyond direct funding for a study. For example, I was looking at how one company give money to a non-profit they control. The non-profit funds the studies. Studies don't say they were funded by the company. Money was effectively laundered. Drug companies wanted to sell people on statins so they funded studies. Egg companies want people to eat eggs that are high in cholesterol so they fund studies. It's a mess of advertising. High cholesterol is know to lead to atherosclerosis[1]. It's one of the things that is involved in forming the plaques that build up in arteries which lead to forms of heart disease. What caught my attention was the long term studies around the people of loma lima. There are many vegans and vegetarians there who have been involved in long term studies. They have the same jobs as others in the area, live in the same area, and have many of the same habits of others with different diets. This has been great for looking at how diet affects things. Through those studies they've learned a lot about how diet affects cardiovascular disease. [1] https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/atherosclerosis https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/atherosclerosis

sleepingadmin 5y ago
>I've heard this before. There has been a large uptake in publications on cholesterol from the egg industry. But, you have to look beyond direct funding for a study. The problem was both side I'm sure. Cereal corps on one side, eggs on the other. One trying to counter the other. The beauty is that since 2005, that changed. It's not 100% but it was pretty effective. We can now see what's really going on. Ancel Keys himself has admitted and even pushed way later in life that dietary cholesterol doesn't matter. So the egg industry is innocent. >High cholesterol is know to lead to atherosclerosis[1]. It's one of the things that is involved in forming the plaques that build up in arteries which lead to forms of heart disease. Sure but what causes this is what matters. As explained in that webmd link I provided is that this is caused by sugar. Primarily refined sugars. I must admit I don't understand how sugar damages ldl >What caught my attention was the long term studies around the people of loma lima. There are many vegans and vegetarians there who have been involved in long term studies. They have the same jobs as others in the area, live in the same area, and have many of the same habits of others with different diets. This has been great for looking at how diet affects things. Through those studies they've learned a lot about how diet affects cardiovascular disease. That's the problem when cereal companies discovered they were the cause of so many diseases. As the saying goes, 'it's always the right time to do what is right' but they didn't want to be out of a job. They did the wrong thing. Afterall, Kellogg the man was an absolute scumbag responsible for the deaths of millions.

mike00632 5y ago

To be clear, you can study high cholesterol by simply having test subjects eat eggs. It reliably raises serum cholesterol in real time. It's also the reason why blood cholesterol tests have you fast before testing. Seeing what foods raise cholesterol isn't some mysterious science that we haven't cracked. All of the egg-industry funded studies which try to show that "dietary cholesterol doesn't affect serum cholesterol" are doing extreme mental and linguistic gymnastics. That statement, which can sometimes be shown to be true, only applies to dietary cholesterol in isolation from any other food, including cholesterol in isolation from the rest of the egg. Dietary cholesterol with saturated fat, which is the most common way that dietary cholesterol is consumed, does more to raise serum cholesterol than any other food. Oh, and also high cholesterol is a necessary condition for heart disease.

sleepingadmin 5y ago
>To be clear, you can study high cholesterol by simply having test subjects eat eggs. It reliably raises serum cholesterol in real time I must admit this goes against what I know. Lets look into it together; nothing older than 2005 will be allowed. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/cholesterol/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you... Harvard ought to be a good source: >The biggest influence on blood cholesterol level is the mix of fats and carbohydrates in your diet—not the amount of cholesterol you eat from food. Although it remains important to limit the amount of cholesterol you eat, especially if you have diabetes, for most people dietary cholesterol is not as problematic as once believed. So exactly what I said. What's important as well, 'especially if you have diabetes' because as I said, as did my webmd link say. It's sugar that is doing it. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/dietary-cholesterol-does-not-matter https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/dietary-cholesterol-doe... Healthline fantastic source because they source their sources. Literally the title says exactly what I said. >The amount of cholesterol in your diet and the amount of cholesterol in your blood are very different things. I could probably steal healthline's sources but I'll just leave it here. >All of the egg-industry funded studies which try to show that "dietary cholesterol doesn't affect serum cholesterol" are doing extreme mental and linguistic gymnastics. That statement, which can sometimes be shown to be true, only applies to dietary cholesterol in isolation from any other food, including cholesterol in isolation from the rest of the egg. Dietary cholesterol with saturated fat, which is the most common way that dietary cholesterol is consumed, does more to raise serum cholesterol than any other food. Oh, and also high cholesterol is a necessary condition for heart disease As I believe I conclude above. This 'egg-industry' boogyman is untrue. In fact, your body will continue to produce cholesterol for you if you eat a low cholesterol diet. It's obviously not sufficient, we are evolved to be on a high cholesterol diet. What a low cholesterol high sugar diet does is hide the huge dangerous spike in ldl that the sugar causes. This is a tremendously unhealthy approach to take when the correct approach is no sugar. Let's discuss what cholesterol is used for. Testosterone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Biochemistry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Biochemistry If you eat a low cholesterol diet. Your testosterone will be tremendously low. So for example about the same time this all came to light is some youtubers(try guys) went and got their testosterone checked and it was so low that they are either 100 years old, castrated or women. Virtually all those guys are probably incapable of having children and their doctors should be putting them on supplements to fix this asap. Huge health risks like osteoporosis is near certain. Did you know that fertility clinics is an amazing industry profitability wise. Customers lined up around the block waiting for months.

brandonmenc 5y ago

Since about 2010 heart disease has been on the rise again after decades of decline, which seems to coincide with the craze in keto type diets. Sugar consumption has declined slightly over that same time period.

sleepingadmin 5y ago
>Since about 2010 heart disease has been on the rise again after decades of decline, Curious, not sure I know exactly what this graph looks like. Also looking for this, it's hard to find. Some graphs certainly show an increase since 2000. But they are poor sources I wont share. As a Canadian, I find this source acceptable. https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/report-heart-disease-Canada-2018.html https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications... Which this source and others say the opposite. That the problem is getting better. Keto's re-emergence was in 2017 or so. So not really included in the data. Keto is also not a widely accepted diet, so impossible to account for in wide data like this. >which seems to coincide with the craze in keto type diets. Sugar consumption has declined slightly over that same time period. Take this for example: Again 2016... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC5040825/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC5040825/ Or a more recent one: https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30549-0/fulltext https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30549-0/fulltex... Modern science is very clear that it's sugar that is causing cardiovascular disease.
- brandonmenc 5y ago
  I was using American numbers. Keto is pretty popular here - the Atkins diet exploded in popularity in the early 2000s. I don't think it's "clear" that sugar causes cardiovascular disease. I think what is clear is that obesity plus inactivity are overwhelmingly the main causes at a population level. Obesity can result from eating lots of sugar and/or from eating lots of fat. But just about every population level study shows that consuming red meat increases cardiovascular disease. We'll have to check in a decade or two from now to see what effects keto-style diets have on cardiovascular disease but as tasty as they are, I'm not going to take my chances with one. Everything in moderation.