4 ms·

Move over JavaScript: Back-end languages are coming to the front-end

19 points by BerislavLopac 5y ago

boxed 5y ago
I looked into phoenix a it. The migration story seemed pretty bad though. It's amazing to me that other frameworks don't look at django and copy that. Ecto (the ORM in Phoenix) seems like it should have all the parts for automatic migration generation but it's just the last little step missing.
adamredwoods 5y ago
I was looking at the Caldera micro chat example, but noticed that the local state does not update the shared state until after the form send? Why not during the onChange() event? I am assuming the number of requests would be too high for the simple json file io? Or am I thinking of this incorrectly? This is the first time I've investigated a solution of this type.
- cplusplusfellow 5y ago
  Don’t let anyone fool you. We let a generation of progress go to complete waste because some fools wanted to run JS on the front end and backend instead of actually fixing the front end debacle that existed. It’s a shame we didn’t make better use of our time solving the problem before the JS posers did their horrors by pretending that the solution was to take front end languages and code the backend.
  - gedy 5y ago
    Name checks out
throays123 5y ago
Nah. JS is popular for more reasons than its syntax. One being that with node and vue or react you can code the whole backend and frontend with one language that was designed specifically for the web. If anyone has wet dreams of writing webapps with go or rust then boy do i have bad news for you. If anything node will replace even more of php, python, ruby and other similarly limited languages.
- goodguyamericun 5y ago
  You're really ignorant. Gopher exists. Scalajs exists. It's okay to not know but then watch your tone. Or just always
  - dang 5y ago
    We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- pull_my_finger 5y ago
  JS is popular because it's the language you can use natively on client-side web pages. You need to know it for the front-end and front-end webdevs were sold an easy way to do full-stack with Node.js. It might maintain it's momentum for a while, especially while WASM requires JS to integrate, but lets not pretend that JS is popular because it's an exceptionally good or well designed language. If it were so great there wouldn't be A) so many languages that compile-to JS, B) so many languages embedded-in javascript (that weren't traditionally), or now C) frameworks like Phoenix Liveview/Blazor/Livewire that try to hide it from the developer altogether. If you catch people gushing how much they love javaScript it's probably because it was their first programming language and they're really gushing that they love programming.
  - midrus 5y ago
    The sooner JavaScript haters assume there is no way around it, the better we'll all be. I do like a lot Livewire, Hotwire, Unpoly, HTMX, etc... but using these tools (or any backend language compiled to wasm, etc,etc) as a way to try to avoid JavaScript is never going to work and will only cause pain and terrible applications. Even with those HTML first technologies (which I like a lot) you need to learn to accept JavaScript is just another tool and one that you will definitely need to learn and use to make anything decent. It is great to have a framework such as livewire that when you click a button to "load more" will render the new items in the backend and just swap out a placeholder and done. No JavaScript, no API, etc. Amazing. It is just *terrible*, flaky, unresponsive, overkill and absurd to reach for the backend to re render a bunch of html because you needed to toggle a class or hide a box. Use the right tool for the job. I'm really tired of backend developers hating on JavaScript the same I'm tired of JavaScript developers hating on PHP, etc, etc. Different tools. Different tasks. Let's not try to be purists and "JavaScript all the things" or "I'm not touching JavaScript because it sucks".
cultofmetatron 5y ago
As a former nodejs and react developer, I welcome these new entrants. I feel like too many developers never venture out past javascript and it shows. different languages highlight different ways of approaching and solving problems and I look forward to how that will play out.

19 points by BerislavLopac 5y ago

I looked into phoenix a it. The migration story seemed pretty bad though. It's amazing to me that other frameworks don't look at django and copy that. Ecto (the ORM in Phoenix) seems like it should have all the parts for automatic migration generation but it's just the last little step missing.

adamredwoods 5y ago

I was looking at the Caldera micro chat example, but noticed that the local state does not update the shared state until after the form send? Why not during the onChange() event? I am assuming the number of requests would be too high for the simple json file io? Or am I thinking of this incorrectly? This is the first time I've investigated a solution of this type.

cplusplusfellow 5y ago
Don’t let anyone fool you. We let a generation of progress go to complete waste because some fools wanted to run JS on the front end and backend instead of actually fixing the front end debacle that existed. It’s a shame we didn’t make better use of our time solving the problem before the JS posers did their horrors by pretending that the solution was to take front end languages and code the backend.
- gedy 5y ago
  Name checks out

throays123 5y ago

Nah. JS is popular for more reasons than its syntax. One being that with node and vue or react you can code the whole backend and frontend with one language that was designed specifically for the web. If anyone has wet dreams of writing webapps with go or rust then boy do i have bad news for you. If anything node will replace even more of php, python, ruby and other similarly limited languages.

goodguyamericun 5y ago
You're really ignorant. Gopher exists. Scalajs exists. It's okay to not know but then watch your tone. Or just always
- dang 5y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
pull_my_finger 5y ago
JS is popular because it's the language you can use natively on client-side web pages. You need to know it for the front-end and front-end webdevs were sold an easy way to do full-stack with Node.js. It might maintain it's momentum for a while, especially while WASM requires JS to integrate, but lets not pretend that JS is popular because it's an exceptionally good or well designed language. If it were so great there wouldn't be A) so many languages that compile-to JS, B) so many languages embedded-in javascript (that weren't traditionally), or now C) frameworks like Phoenix Liveview/Blazor/Livewire that try to hide it from the developer altogether. If you catch people gushing how much they love javaScript it's probably because it was their first programming language and they're really gushing that they love programming.
- midrus 5y ago
  The sooner JavaScript haters assume there is no way around it, the better we'll all be. I do like a lot Livewire, Hotwire, Unpoly, HTMX, etc... but using these tools (or any backend language compiled to wasm, etc,etc) as a way to try to avoid JavaScript is never going to work and will only cause pain and terrible applications. Even with those HTML first technologies (which I like a lot) you need to learn to accept JavaScript is just another tool and one that you will definitely need to learn and use to make anything decent. It is great to have a framework such as livewire that when you click a button to "load more" will render the new items in the backend and just swap out a placeholder and done. No JavaScript, no API, etc. Amazing. It is just *terrible*, flaky, unresponsive, overkill and absurd to reach for the backend to re render a bunch of html because you needed to toggle a class or hide a box. Use the right tool for the job. I'm really tired of backend developers hating on JavaScript the same I'm tired of JavaScript developers hating on PHP, etc, etc. Different tools. Different tasks. Let's not try to be purists and "JavaScript all the things" or "I'm not touching JavaScript because it sucks".

cultofmetatron 5y ago

As a former nodejs and react developer, I welcome these new entrants. I feel like too many developers never venture out past javascript and it shows. different languages highlight different ways of approaching and solving problems and I look forward to how that will play out.