5 ms·

It competes with anyone selling point of sale hardware. I think Square falls into that camp, no? I wouldn't want to be in that space right now. I don't see how

by sn1de 5y ago

It competes with anyone selling point of sale hardware. I think Square falls into that camp, no? I wouldn't want to be in that space right now. I don't see how this doesn't usurp a big chunk of their market since it isn't even a decision between buy this or buy that, but buy that or just use the thing already in my pocket.

ladberg 5y ago
I assume Square makes vastly more on fees than on hardware, so the opportunity to make fees off more merchants who have a smaller barrier to entry is probably beneficial, even if they don't buy hardware.
- iamacyborg 5y ago
  Fees are definitely where the money is made in the payments sector, however, most proper terminals are leased so that represents a fairly large source of revenue for merchant service providers. A company I worked for were leasing terminals starting at £20 a month, and then took a cut of transactions plus a whole host of other bolt-ons like PCI non-compliance fees (which is it’s own racket, they’re not incentivised to ensure merchants are PCI compliant because it’s a significant revenue stream).
siver_john 5y ago
Anyone who is going to be buying PoS from Square at a rate greater than just the phone attachment reader, this won't be sufficient for. Using a phone for a business you personally run is fine, using a phone as the central point of your business for even a relatively small fast casual is going to be a nightmare. And for those even on Square Apple's ipads are still the preferred choice as far as I can tell. So there isn't much of a benefit other than fees. For anything larger than a small fast casual you quickly run into greater integration needs with things like KDS (of which a few do use tablets, Toast, Fresh, etc, and even then I think ipads are preferred. I know Square integrates with a few of those as well as NorthStar so, I don't think they may have much to fear other than at the low end mom and pop stores.
- desiarnezjr 5y ago
  POS and payment hardware used to be a fairly high margin vertical hardware business, but I don't think so any longer. The real goal now is merchant / customer acquisition and service lock in. Basically I'd expect the hardware will be given away at some point.
- lostcolony 5y ago
  I'm not even sure there, at least for another few years. No store, mom and pop or otherwise, would want to be "tap to pay only" as a means of taking credit card payments. There are still plenty of cards out there that don't have RFID chips.
  - monkeynotes 5y ago
    No one uses a mag reader here in Canada. Europe ditto, and sounds like the antipodes too. I don't know anyone who doesn't have RFID cards, debit or credit. Swiping a card through a mag reader is the backup option alone here.
    - lostcolony 5y ago
      I'm in the US. It's not uncommon here. In fact, two of my cards, a Chase Visa, and an Amex, both only support mag stripe and chip; they do not have an RFID chip in them. I could get them replaced, but why? Every POS system supports those; not everyone supports tap to pay. The US may be an anomaly here, but it always has been. The UK had chip and pin roll out while the US still had mag stripe being the most common; we slowly added chip and signature (we still don't have chip and pin), and now we still aren't anywhere close to universal in tap to pay.
  - girvo 5y ago
    Wow really? That’s surprising for some reason. Here in Australia that’s super common, RFID is in every card you can think of. If I go to the farmers market on the weekend, they all accept cash or tap-to-pay with a Square tap-only reader, and that’s it.
pedalpete 5y ago
This was my initial thinking, but then I think most businesses won't want to use a phone as their payment platform. My reasoning is that when I go into a business and I tap the Square terminal, I am assuming that terminal belongs to the business, because what individual would have their own square terminal. If the person who is ringing me up has an iPhone, and says "just tap this", there is a part of me that is wondering if this is the company's iPhone, or their personal device? Of course, this is easily resolved with the right surround which would remove this question, but I think it's somewhat valid. Isn't this how it works in Apple stores (I'm not an apple person). Don't they walk around with iPhones in this big chunky yellow cases, and then you just pay for stuff through that? Maybe I'm wrong...
- sebzim4500 5y ago
  Are you concerned about a malicious employee using their own iphone to steal the money? Why couldn't they give you their own square terminal? On that note, when you pay cash why can't they just pocket whatever you give them? I don't see why you care anyway, they would be stealing from the store, not from you. You would already have whatever item you are buying.
  - stefan_ 5y ago
    Because I can somewhat trust the Square terminal will show the correct amount? If I swipe some random persons iPhone, whats stopping them from showing a $10 total and charging $1000? Is the iPhone gonna print a receipt?
    - GrifMD 5y ago
      This is an interesting to think about. Say you're at an ice cream stand that has a Square Reader (the little square hockey puck reader) that's paired with an iPhone running Square's payment reader. The merchant rings you up for $5, shows you the phone in their hand indicating the cost, and the Square Reader lights up to show it's ready for payment. You pay via inserting your credit card, which processes in a few seconds, and then the payment is complete. The merchant is no longer showing you the phone, and presumably hits "No Receipt". However, the merchant actually has a second out of sight device that is set to charge $500 and is actually paired with the Square Reader. Because you've paid with a physical card, there's a good chance you won't notice the charge till you go to pay your credit card or check your bank account. This would probably be a short-lived scam, as the merchant's malicious Square account would have to be linked to a bank (I think this is the only option), which would identify them. I'm pretty sure Square requires ID verification of some sort as well. So reporting this malicious transaction to your bank/credit card would flag them. Additionally, if you're paying via a mobile wallet, you'll likely get an immediate notification saying "You paid $500 to Malicious Ice Cream Vendor". Now let's think about Apple's new plan. It could be that Apple layer's it's own mandatory interface that shows "Pay $5 to Ice Cream Vendor" regardless of the app being used. Maybe this is actually the employee's phone instead of the company's device, but that's the same as the employee stealing cash out of the register, so not really your issue. Or Apple could not layer it's own UI, and just open up the radio as an API. Apple could require that apps that use this API to have some additional verification to prevent someone from making an app that displays "Charge $5" when it's really charging $500. All that being said, I only see smaller merchants using iPhones + Square Readers. Maybe some boutique stores, food trucks, etc. Once a store gets large enough, they usually want dedicated hardware, even if it's a Square Stand. --- Here's Square's hardware page if you want visuals: https://squareup.com/au/en/hardware https://squareup.com/au/en/hardware
monkeynotes 5y ago
Square probably makes zilch on their hardware sales as it is, the real business is percentages on sales.
duskwuff 5y ago
Square's primary business is credit card processing. The hardware is secondary at best. (It might not even be sold at a profit!) I would be very surprised if Apple tried to enter the credit card processing industry. It isn't the sort of thing they're positioned to do well.
alwillis 5y ago
It competes with anyone selling point of sale hardware No. It allows sole proprietors, freelancers and the like to not have to get a Square reader to take credit card transactions. That's super convenient, especially for getting a deposit from a client, for example. It also requires a newish iPhone (iPhone XS or later device), so there will still be plenty of iPhones out there that won't support this.
pmart123 5y ago
Square sells hardware, but losing money on that. I don't believe it is intended to compete with payment processors providing hardware, but more so commoditizes it/flattens existing players in cases where a POS terminal system isn't needed.

by sn1de 5y ago

ladberg 5y ago

I assume Square makes vastly more on fees than on hardware, so the opportunity to make fees off more merchants who have a smaller barrier to entry is probably beneficial, even if they don't buy hardware.

iamacyborg 5y ago
Fees are definitely where the money is made in the payments sector, however, most proper terminals are leased so that represents a fairly large source of revenue for merchant service providers. A company I worked for were leasing terminals starting at £20 a month, and then took a cut of transactions plus a whole host of other bolt-ons like PCI non-compliance fees (which is it’s own racket, they’re not incentivised to ensure merchants are PCI compliant because it’s a significant revenue stream).

siver_john 5y ago

Anyone who is going to be buying PoS from Square at a rate greater than just the phone attachment reader, this won't be sufficient for. Using a phone for a business you personally run is fine, using a phone as the central point of your business for even a relatively small fast casual is going to be a nightmare. And for those even on Square Apple's ipads are still the preferred choice as far as I can tell. So there isn't much of a benefit other than fees. For anything larger than a small fast casual you quickly run into greater integration needs with things like KDS (of which a few do use tablets, Toast, Fresh, etc, and even then I think ipads are preferred. I know Square integrates with a few of those as well as NorthStar so, I don't think they may have much to fear other than at the low end mom and pop stores.

desiarnezjr 5y ago
POS and payment hardware used to be a fairly high margin vertical hardware business, but I don't think so any longer. The real goal now is merchant / customer acquisition and service lock in. Basically I'd expect the hardware will be given away at some point.
lostcolony 5y ago
I'm not even sure there, at least for another few years. No store, mom and pop or otherwise, would want to be "tap to pay only" as a means of taking credit card payments. There are still plenty of cards out there that don't have RFID chips.
- monkeynotes 5y ago
  No one uses a mag reader here in Canada. Europe ditto, and sounds like the antipodes too. I don't know anyone who doesn't have RFID cards, debit or credit. Swiping a card through a mag reader is the backup option alone here.
  - lostcolony 5y ago
    I'm in the US. It's not uncommon here. In fact, two of my cards, a Chase Visa, and an Amex, both only support mag stripe and chip; they do not have an RFID chip in them. I could get them replaced, but why? Every POS system supports those; not everyone supports tap to pay. The US may be an anomaly here, but it always has been. The UK had chip and pin roll out while the US still had mag stripe being the most common; we slowly added chip and signature (we still don't have chip and pin), and now we still aren't anywhere close to universal in tap to pay.
- girvo 5y ago
  Wow really? That’s surprising for some reason. Here in Australia that’s super common, RFID is in every card you can think of. If I go to the farmers market on the weekend, they all accept cash or tap-to-pay with a Square tap-only reader, and that’s it.

pedalpete 5y ago

This was my initial thinking, but then I think most businesses won't want to use a phone as their payment platform. My reasoning is that when I go into a business and I tap the Square terminal, I am assuming that terminal belongs to the business, because what individual would have their own square terminal. If the person who is ringing me up has an iPhone, and says "just tap this", there is a part of me that is wondering if this is the company's iPhone, or their personal device? Of course, this is easily resolved with the right surround which would remove this question, but I think it's somewhat valid. Isn't this how it works in Apple stores (I'm not an apple person). Don't they walk around with iPhones in this big chunky yellow cases, and then you just pay for stuff through that? Maybe I'm wrong...

sebzim4500 5y ago
Are you concerned about a malicious employee using their own iphone to steal the money? Why couldn't they give you their own square terminal? On that note, when you pay cash why can't they just pocket whatever you give them? I don't see why you care anyway, they would be stealing from the store, not from you. You would already have whatever item you are buying.
- stefan_ 5y ago
  Because I can somewhat trust the Square terminal will show the correct amount? If I swipe some random persons iPhone, whats stopping them from showing a $10 total and charging $1000? Is the iPhone gonna print a receipt?
  - GrifMD 5y ago
    This is an interesting to think about. Say you're at an ice cream stand that has a Square Reader (the little square hockey puck reader) that's paired with an iPhone running Square's payment reader. The merchant rings you up for $5, shows you the phone in their hand indicating the cost, and the Square Reader lights up to show it's ready for payment. You pay via inserting your credit card, which processes in a few seconds, and then the payment is complete. The merchant is no longer showing you the phone, and presumably hits "No Receipt". However, the merchant actually has a second out of sight device that is set to charge $500 and is actually paired with the Square Reader. Because you've paid with a physical card, there's a good chance you won't notice the charge till you go to pay your credit card or check your bank account. This would probably be a short-lived scam, as the merchant's malicious Square account would have to be linked to a bank (I think this is the only option), which would identify them. I'm pretty sure Square requires ID verification of some sort as well. So reporting this malicious transaction to your bank/credit card would flag them. Additionally, if you're paying via a mobile wallet, you'll likely get an immediate notification saying "You paid $500 to Malicious Ice Cream Vendor". Now let's think about Apple's new plan. It could be that Apple layer's it's own mandatory interface that shows "Pay $5 to Ice Cream Vendor" regardless of the app being used. Maybe this is actually the employee's phone instead of the company's device, but that's the same as the employee stealing cash out of the register, so not really your issue. Or Apple could not layer it's own UI, and just open up the radio as an API. Apple could require that apps that use this API to have some additional verification to prevent someone from making an app that displays "Charge $5" when it's really charging $500. All that being said, I only see smaller merchants using iPhones + Square Readers. Maybe some boutique stores, food trucks, etc. Once a store gets large enough, they usually want dedicated hardware, even if it's a Square Stand. --- Here's Square's hardware page if you want visuals: https://squareup.com/au/en/hardware https://squareup.com/au/en/hardware

monkeynotes 5y ago

Square probably makes zilch on their hardware sales as it is, the real business is percentages on sales.

duskwuff 5y ago

Square's primary business is credit card processing. The hardware is secondary at best. (It might not even be sold at a profit!) I would be very surprised if Apple tried to enter the credit card processing industry. It isn't the sort of thing they're positioned to do well.

alwillis 5y ago

It competes with anyone selling point of sale hardware No. It allows sole proprietors, freelancers and the like to not have to get a Square reader to take credit card transactions. That's super convenient, especially for getting a deposit from a client, for example. It also requires a newish iPhone (iPhone XS or later device), so there will still be plenty of iPhones out there that won't support this.

pmart123 5y ago

Square sells hardware, but losing money on that. I don't believe it is intended to compete with payment processors providing hardware, but more so commoditizes it/flattens existing players in cases where a POS terminal system isn't needed.