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I know the Stoics were aware of this; I just don't agree with their philosophy. I think in this conversation we are conflating frustration ("my life isn't the
by the_af 5y ago
I know the Stoics were aware of this; I just don't agree with their philosophy.
I think in this conversation we are conflating frustration ("my life isn't the way I would like") with suffering ("my child was ran over by a truck, I have brain cancer, my brother is dying of hunger in a ditch somewhere, I was tortured in a concentration camp, an earthquake killed everyone I loved"). The latter has little, if anything, to do with modern expectations of life. This kind of suffering has no greater meaning and is not necessary at all for joy to exist.
> The modern notion that life is supposed to be in a certain way is a big factor
The ancient Greeks and even older civilizations had all sort of expectations about how life should be. I don't buy at all that suffering is somehow the result of modern expectations.
We created some new forms of suffering and got rid of some older forms. And yet other forms are permanent, outside our control.
- marginalia_nu 5y ago> "My child was ran over by a truck, I have brain cancer, my brother is dying of hunger in a ditch somewhere, I was tortured in a concentration camp, an earthquake killed everyone I loved" Did you begin to suffer from these things when they happened, or when you were told they had happened? If, later, someone came and told you it was a mistake, it was someone else that had suffered all these misfortunes, wouldn't you at that point stop suffering? If this is true, how can it be that these events in themselves are causing you to suffer?
- the_af 5y agoI'm sorry, your line of thought annoys me. I'll bow out of this conversation before I say something I'll regret. Good luck telling the parent of a child who died horribly "were you suffering before the doctors told you, or were the doctors themselves the cause of your suffering?". I've no patience for this.