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Oh get out of here with your suffering is noble nonsense. Take all your clothes off, give away all your money and live outside in a ditch if you like it so much

Oh get out of here with your suffering is noble nonsense. Take all your clothes off, give away all your money and live outside in a ditch if you like it so much.

marginalia_nu 5y ago
Seems pagan Diogenes rather enjoyed that lifestyle.
- wincy 5y ago
- tasha0663 5y ago
  You know, he never really seemed happy in those stories. Except maybe the time he trolled the academy with a "featherless biped".
themaninthedark 5y ago
It is not that suffering is noble. It is that suffering is living.
- iancmceachern 5y ago
  And that rather than running from this reality, if one accepts it instead whole new worlds are opened up. For many is a happier way to walk through life.
  - themaninthedark 5y ago
    To add, suffering also brings enjoyment. The suffering of hunger makes a meal taste better. The suffering of the hot sun makes a dip in the pool or a cool breeze enjoyable.
coding123 5y ago
If we instead are born and tube fed from a machine and allowed to just think non-stop of amazing things. is that a better version of life? It's not that suffering is noble, it's that suffering is the default and we don't know why. And in the meantime the suffering causes growth. At least we hope.
- the_af 5y ago
  A lot of suffering doesn't cause any growth whatsoever, especially the kind of suffering that ends in painful, horrifying death. Challenges may cause growth, and I don't think anybody really wishes for an unchallenging, boring, uneventful life. But suffering? No, thanks.
  - fellowniusmonk 5y ago
    Disease often stunts growth and mental development, being orphaned at a young age (like myself and my sister were) was an irredeemable loss that made everything about my life harder and worse. I've seen countless individuals raise friends and family rounds for ideas I was working on and as a result of my lack of connections or proximity to wealth the growth of my bootstrapped company was slower and worse without capital investment. Better is better, worse is worse, romanticizing suffering is a form of stockholm syndrome often times, where people just can't come to terms with the fact that their lives are demonstrably worse for the malnourishment they've experienced. These people arguing that suffering creates growth must have very benign views of suffering or have experienced suffering very limited in scope. I think many have only experienced personal challenges and conflate it with loss and suffering. Human psychology seems to think everything is a trade off, it's not true, some things are pure win and pure loss. Suffering creates a personal internal response, often times a stoic or any psychologically positive response is beneficial to the individual because of its motivating effect (similar to how optimists tend to outperform pessimists), but let's not fool ourselves, the man with severe brain/body damage may do better with an optimistic perspective than pessimistic but they'll never code or procreate again and their local maxima is objectively worse.
    - 5y ago
legrande 5y ago
I meant it in the Buddhist sense of a lotus flower not being able to grow on a bed of marble, it needs its roots buried in dirty mud. Some amount of adversity is needed in order to grow and build character.

Oh get out of here with your suffering is noble nonsense. Take all your clothes off, give away all your money and live outside in a ditch if you like it so much.

marginalia_nu 5y ago

Seems pagan Diogenes rather enjoyed that lifestyle.

wincy 5y ago
tasha0663 5y ago
You know, he never really seemed happy in those stories. Except maybe the time he trolled the academy with a "featherless biped".

themaninthedark 5y ago

It is not that suffering is noble. It is that suffering is living.

iancmceachern 5y ago
And that rather than running from this reality, if one accepts it instead whole new worlds are opened up. For many is a happier way to walk through life.
- themaninthedark 5y ago
  To add, suffering also brings enjoyment. The suffering of hunger makes a meal taste better. The suffering of the hot sun makes a dip in the pool or a cool breeze enjoyable.

coding123 5y ago

If we instead are born and tube fed from a machine and allowed to just think non-stop of amazing things. is that a better version of life? It's not that suffering is noble, it's that suffering is the default and we don't know why. And in the meantime the suffering causes growth. At least we hope.

the_af 5y ago
A lot of suffering doesn't cause any growth whatsoever, especially the kind of suffering that ends in painful, horrifying death. Challenges may cause growth, and I don't think anybody really wishes for an unchallenging, boring, uneventful life. But suffering? No, thanks.
- fellowniusmonk 5y ago
  Disease often stunts growth and mental development, being orphaned at a young age (like myself and my sister were) was an irredeemable loss that made everything about my life harder and worse. I've seen countless individuals raise friends and family rounds for ideas I was working on and as a result of my lack of connections or proximity to wealth the growth of my bootstrapped company was slower and worse without capital investment. Better is better, worse is worse, romanticizing suffering is a form of stockholm syndrome often times, where people just can't come to terms with the fact that their lives are demonstrably worse for the malnourishment they've experienced. These people arguing that suffering creates growth must have very benign views of suffering or have experienced suffering very limited in scope. I think many have only experienced personal challenges and conflate it with loss and suffering. Human psychology seems to think everything is a trade off, it's not true, some things are pure win and pure loss. Suffering creates a personal internal response, often times a stoic or any psychologically positive response is beneficial to the individual because of its motivating effect (similar to how optimists tend to outperform pessimists), but let's not fool ourselves, the man with severe brain/body damage may do better with an optimistic perspective than pessimistic but they'll never code or procreate again and their local maxima is objectively worse.
  - 5y ago

legrande 5y ago

I meant it in the Buddhist sense of a lotus flower not being able to grow on a bed of marble, it needs its roots buried in dirty mud. Some amount of adversity is needed in order to grow and build character.