9 ms·

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. For example, I recently had mov

by TIPSIO 5y ago

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. For example, I recently had movers. I went out of my way to get a cash tip for them earlier. It would have been nice to skip that and just ping it at them somehow without awkwardly saying "Hey friend do you have Venmo? Apple Pay? CashApp? I'd like to tip you. What's your phone number?! Let me get that, thanks, bye, delete.". This is NFC and a bit different but just my thoughts.

hn_throwaway_69 5y ago
Eh, I hope it doesn't. Tipping needs to die out. I'd prefer to have the moving company pay the movers a living wage such that a tip would be unnecessary and politely refused.
- ludamad 5y ago
  I'd rather an industry standard payout, but the workers getting pay proportional to revenue is actually not a bad model. I just hate the analysis paralysis
- TIPSIO 5y ago
  This is obviously a bit flame-y / unrelated / political. Regardless of how you personally feel about US wages and the 20% I already prepaid for tip through the company to them, to be able to send money to others would be useful. There could be other cases besides tipping.
- exikyut 5y ago
  I'd be really interested to know what to properly call it, but IMHO this is the kind of thing that the market will never solve top-down because the structure of the relationship would never support it. I think an on-the-ground solution that caters to the long tail would be the only thing that would basically survive. Everything else would succumb to social forces and basically just fizzle out. AirDropping Apple credit could be an interesting pilot study, but I doubt Apple would do something like that sadly :/
- skeeter2020 5y ago
  Please don't confuse the restaurant industry where tips subsidize wages with the original idea of tipping as a sign of gratitude an thanks. A tip can be a meaningful and impactful way to say "You went beyond expectation, did an awesome job and I really appreciate it". Why would you not want that option?
  - arnarbi 5y ago
    Because it doesn’t actually work that way and it’s in no way an “option”. In reality tipping becomes expected and people withhold it when the service does /not/ meet expectation. That’s awkward and too confrontational for a lot of people so they’ll just tip anyways. Personally I also find it exhausting to have to judge every single service I get. So I just tip a standard amount, there’s absolutely no feedback involved. So there is no point. There are lots of downsides with very few upsides.
    - hunter2_ 5y ago
      For situations where laws allow for sub-standard wages, such as restaurant wait staff, I agree with you. It's not really an option, it's exhausting, there's no point. For situations that aren't codified into law like that, it can more legitimately be modulated according to how the service made you feel, from zero to "keep the change" to a couple bucks to sky's the limit. The former should be solved by abolishing tipping. The latter should be solved by technology that's somehow as frictionless as cash.
      - rootusrootus 5y ago
        > laws allow for sub-standard wages, such as restaurant wait staff The law does not allow for sub-standard wages, however. If everyone stopped tipping today, wait staff would get the same minimum wage as any other job.
        BenjiWiebe 5y ago
        No, actually the law allows for below-minimum hourly wages for tipped jobs. That's the whole issue...
- reaperducer 5y ago
  I'd prefer to have the moving company pay the movers a living wage such that a tip would be unnecessary and politely refused. Clearly, you have no idea of how the moving industry works. Everybody's a contractor of a contractor of a franchisee. The person who picks up your stuff is not always the person who delivers it. When I move (frequently), I make sure to tip each person packing my stuff $50, each person loading my stuff $50, and the driver $100 for < 1,000 miles, or $200 > 2,000 miles. Lifting and carrying and handling other people's prized possessions isn't an easy job. This is how I show appreciation when the job is done well.
  - hn_throwaway_69 5y ago
    >Clearly, you have no idea of how the moving industry works. It's really no answer to say I need to understand how each industry works. Why would I? And why should I? It's the government's responsibility to understand the nuances of, and regulate, each industry. Do we really want to live in a world where consumers need to understand the detail of how each industry operates so they can ensure sub-sub contractors can be remunerated appropriately?
jjice 5y ago
While true that that could be nice, I don't think the burden of asking for an alternative like Venmo or CashApp like you listed is that high, and this case requires that the movers would also have an iPhone.
yuuu 5y ago
I had movers a couple months ago and tried to tip them. Note that I don't ever carry cash and am a proponent of abolishing the Federal Reserve. I asked them for their Ethereum or Bitcoin address, and they said, "neither of us don't have that, but we take cash." I calmly tried to explain to them the evils of the Federal Reserve for around five minutes, then began to set them up with their own cryptocurrency wallets on their phones. I then plugged in my Ledger Nano S and had them each read me their public keys, which I entered into Ledger Live and sent them each their five dollar tip. It was a simple process and did not take longer than thirty minutes. By the end of the exchange, they were both very happy with the arrangement and thanked me profusely for setting them up to use the future of currency, although I was still in the process of explaining its importance. "Teach a man to fish," they say, and I believe I did it on that day. I encourage everyone else to do the same.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- WillPostForFood 5y ago
  set them up with their own cryptocurrency wallets on their phones What specifically did you have them set up?
  - ChicagoBoy11 5y ago
    Woosh
- mike1o1 5y ago
  I can't tell if this is satire or not.
  - orangepanda 5y ago
    Looking at their comment history, I think they're actually serious.
    - aixi 5y ago
throwaway22032 5y ago
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  I have to go out of my way to have any cash, which I do, since I happen to go to bars that still accept cash (many in my area are cashless). It's nice to throw down cash in a crowd vs. trying to swipe and sign when the line is crazy. To get money, I have to drive to an ATM and pay 1-5% fee to convert my money from bits to paper. Fortunately I have a bank that refunds ATM fees. The point of this thread is that we are one step closer to making your first scenario "Hey let me tap you the money" and that's the end of the discussion.
- gwd 5y ago
  > I read this sort of thing all of the time and it sounds as if you're just going out of your way to not carry cash for the sake of it. The drawer behind me right now has loose change in it, my jeans pocket always has a fiver. What happens when you tip that fiver away? You have to go to the ATM and replace it. It's been years since I've carried a wallet in my pocket. When I go out I have my keys in one pocket and a phone, whose case has a slot for a credit card in it, in the other pocket. I never have my debit card with me, and my memory of the PIN keeps getting rustier. The barrier to getting cash and then carrying it around keeps getting higher; and it's rare that I have a problem from the lack of it.
  - iam-TJ 5y ago
    The big problem here is you've no fall-back for when the place you're trying to pay, or their merchant services provider, has a communications/network outage or malware attack or has assets frozen - some of which affect multiple large retailers. There have been many instances over the years, even just in the U.K., where small and large stores have been unable to accept digital/network-required payments and ended up with massive queues or customers abandoning shopping carts full of items due to not having cash. "Spar cyber attack hits more than 300 convenience stores" (2021-12) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-59554433 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-59554433 "Manx Telecom broadband outage affects 4,000" (2020-08) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-53920785 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-53920785 "Wirecard: 'It’s really bad. I’m left with nothing'" (2020-06) https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53222181 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53222181 "Debit card glitch means thousands charged twice" (2018-09) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45400234 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45400234 "Visa (Europe) says service returning to normal" (2018-06) https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44335804 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44335804 "Asda card machine fault leads to queues at checkouts" (2016-10) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37815973 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37815973 "RBS says it has resolved debit card computer glitch" (2016-10) https://www.bbc.com/news/business-37658559 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-37658559 "Lloyds Banking Group says card problems sorted" (2014-01) https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25907000 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25907000 "Card payments system crash disrupts shoppers" (2010-10) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11458962 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11458962 Also, interesting and somewhat unexpected contactless from long distance! "Contactless 'charging errors' at Marks and Spencer" (2013-05) https://www.bbc.com/news/business-22545804 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-22545804
kilroy123 5y ago
Here in London tons of people and places have pay touch readers like this: https://imgur.com/nNaDddR https://imgur.com/nNaDddR I'm talking museums asking for donations. To street performers in the tube. They're everywhere.
- benbristow 5y ago
  The lollipop and aftershave man in my local nightclub's toilet has one. I'm tempted to give him a pound next time to see what pops up on my bank statement (and for some probably counterfeit cologne). For context: I don't know if they're a thing in the States but in most male toilets in nightclubs (and more 'clubby' bars) in the UK there's usually an annoying guy in the toilet who turns off the hand driers and gives you paper to dry your hands whilst passively aggresively demanding a tip in return for a lollipop or a spray of various aftershaves/deoderants.
  - sgerenser 5y ago
    Yeah “restroom attendants” are definitely a thing in the US as well. I used to think it was stupid but from the club owner’s point of view it probably helps a lot to avoid vandalism, drug use, etc. that might otherwise occur in the bathrooms. I do end up seeing a lot of people just not wash their hands because they don’t like feeling obligated to tip the guy for handing them a paper towel.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      I just take a paper towel myself. If there is a guy standing there holding the only paper towels in the bathroom, I'll just ask him why he's holding them. I wouldn't use one from him either, that just seems gross. I wouldn't tip for it in any case. It's just slightly glorified panhandling, I assume it isn't at all condoned by the club owner and they'd probably throw the guy out if they were aware. I haven't actually seen it in the US, though, just at international airports outside the country, so maybe the dynamic is different here.
      - 5y ago
londons_explore 5y ago
Indeed - I'm really surprised that Apple doesn't have some kind of "just pay another apple user" feature. I know that would open them up to lots of KYC requirements, as well as require them to do some of the evil things that financial laws require (eg. tracking all payments, closing accounts and banning users for certain things while not being able to tell the users why, freezing users money till they can present documents they don't have, etc.) But it still seems worth it to take over the payments space from venmo, cashapp and paypal, make the wall to switching to android a little taller, etc.
- thefreeman 5y ago
  They do support this in iMessage, it's called Apple Cash. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207875 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207875
dumbfounder 5y ago
I have seen this solved at a bar with a QR code linked to venmo.
dzhiurgis 5y ago
iPhone needs a little printer that prints a QR code that represents an NFT that was just minted in blockchain
reaperducer 5y ago
I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. I totally agree. At a parking garage the other day, there was a long line of people trying to get their cars back from the valets because one person was trying to tip with some random app. "Oh, you need to download this. Yeah, open the App Store. Then download it. Yeah, it take a while. OK, now sign up. --five minutes elapse-- OK, now what's your username so I can send you the money? Did you say 'e' or 'v?' Was that '4114' or '1144?' OK. Sending now..." It took like ten minutes.

by TIPSIO 5y ago

hn_throwaway_69 5y ago

Eh, I hope it doesn't. Tipping needs to die out. I'd prefer to have the moving company pay the movers a living wage such that a tip would be unnecessary and politely refused.

ludamad 5y ago
I'd rather an industry standard payout, but the workers getting pay proportional to revenue is actually not a bad model. I just hate the analysis paralysis
TIPSIO 5y ago
This is obviously a bit flame-y / unrelated / political. Regardless of how you personally feel about US wages and the 20% I already prepaid for tip through the company to them, to be able to send money to others would be useful. There could be other cases besides tipping.
exikyut 5y ago
I'd be really interested to know what to properly call it, but IMHO this is the kind of thing that the market will never solve top-down because the structure of the relationship would never support it. I think an on-the-ground solution that caters to the long tail would be the only thing that would basically survive. Everything else would succumb to social forces and basically just fizzle out. AirDropping Apple credit could be an interesting pilot study, but I doubt Apple would do something like that sadly :/
skeeter2020 5y ago
Please don't confuse the restaurant industry where tips subsidize wages with the original idea of tipping as a sign of gratitude an thanks. A tip can be a meaningful and impactful way to say "You went beyond expectation, did an awesome job and I really appreciate it". Why would you not want that option?
- arnarbi 5y ago
  Because it doesn’t actually work that way and it’s in no way an “option”. In reality tipping becomes expected and people withhold it when the service does /not/ meet expectation. That’s awkward and too confrontational for a lot of people so they’ll just tip anyways. Personally I also find it exhausting to have to judge every single service I get. So I just tip a standard amount, there’s absolutely no feedback involved. So there is no point. There are lots of downsides with very few upsides.
  - hunter2_ 5y ago
    For situations where laws allow for sub-standard wages, such as restaurant wait staff, I agree with you. It's not really an option, it's exhausting, there's no point. For situations that aren't codified into law like that, it can more legitimately be modulated according to how the service made you feel, from zero to "keep the change" to a couple bucks to sky's the limit. The former should be solved by abolishing tipping. The latter should be solved by technology that's somehow as frictionless as cash.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      > laws allow for sub-standard wages, such as restaurant wait staff The law does not allow for sub-standard wages, however. If everyone stopped tipping today, wait staff would get the same minimum wage as any other job.
      - BenjiWiebe 5y ago
        No, actually the law allows for below-minimum hourly wages for tipped jobs. That's the whole issue...
reaperducer 5y ago
I'd prefer to have the moving company pay the movers a living wage such that a tip would be unnecessary and politely refused. Clearly, you have no idea of how the moving industry works. Everybody's a contractor of a contractor of a franchisee. The person who picks up your stuff is not always the person who delivers it. When I move (frequently), I make sure to tip each person packing my stuff $50, each person loading my stuff $50, and the driver $100 for < 1,000 miles, or $200 > 2,000 miles. Lifting and carrying and handling other people's prized possessions isn't an easy job. This is how I show appreciation when the job is done well.
- hn_throwaway_69 5y ago
  >Clearly, you have no idea of how the moving industry works. It's really no answer to say I need to understand how each industry works. Why would I? And why should I? It's the government's responsibility to understand the nuances of, and regulate, each industry. Do we really want to live in a world where consumers need to understand the detail of how each industry operates so they can ensure sub-sub contractors can be remunerated appropriately?

jjice 5y ago

While true that that could be nice, I don't think the burden of asking for an alternative like Venmo or CashApp like you listed is that high, and this case requires that the movers would also have an iPhone.

yuuu 5y ago

I had movers a couple months ago and tried to tip them. Note that I don't ever carry cash and am a proponent of abolishing the Federal Reserve. I asked them for their Ethereum or Bitcoin address, and they said, "neither of us don't have that, but we take cash." I calmly tried to explain to them the evils of the Federal Reserve for around five minutes, then began to set them up with their own cryptocurrency wallets on their phones. I then plugged in my Ledger Nano S and had them each read me their public keys, which I entered into Ledger Live and sent them each their five dollar tip. It was a simple process and did not take longer than thirty minutes. By the end of the exchange, they were both very happy with the arrangement and thanked me profusely for setting them up to use the future of currency, although I was still in the process of explaining its importance. "Teach a man to fish," they say, and I believe I did it on that day. I encourage everyone else to do the same.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
WillPostForFood 5y ago
set them up with their own cryptocurrency wallets on their phones What specifically did you have them set up?
- ChicagoBoy11 5y ago
  Woosh
mike1o1 5y ago
I can't tell if this is satire or not.
- orangepanda 5y ago
  Looking at their comment history, I think they're actually serious.
  - aixi 5y ago

throwaway22032 5y ago

unethical_ban 5y ago
I have to go out of my way to have any cash, which I do, since I happen to go to bars that still accept cash (many in my area are cashless). It's nice to throw down cash in a crowd vs. trying to swipe and sign when the line is crazy. To get money, I have to drive to an ATM and pay 1-5% fee to convert my money from bits to paper. Fortunately I have a bank that refunds ATM fees. The point of this thread is that we are one step closer to making your first scenario "Hey let me tap you the money" and that's the end of the discussion.
gwd 5y ago
> I read this sort of thing all of the time and it sounds as if you're just going out of your way to not carry cash for the sake of it. The drawer behind me right now has loose change in it, my jeans pocket always has a fiver. What happens when you tip that fiver away? You have to go to the ATM and replace it. It's been years since I've carried a wallet in my pocket. When I go out I have my keys in one pocket and a phone, whose case has a slot for a credit card in it, in the other pocket. I never have my debit card with me, and my memory of the PIN keeps getting rustier. The barrier to getting cash and then carrying it around keeps getting higher; and it's rare that I have a problem from the lack of it.
- iam-TJ 5y ago
  The big problem here is you've no fall-back for when the place you're trying to pay, or their merchant services provider, has a communications/network outage or malware attack or has assets frozen - some of which affect multiple large retailers. There have been many instances over the years, even just in the U.K., where small and large stores have been unable to accept digital/network-required payments and ended up with massive queues or customers abandoning shopping carts full of items due to not having cash. "Spar cyber attack hits more than 300 convenience stores" (2021-12) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-59554433 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-59554433 "Manx Telecom broadband outage affects 4,000" (2020-08) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-53920785 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-53920785 "Wirecard: 'It’s really bad. I’m left with nothing'" (2020-06) https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53222181 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53222181 "Debit card glitch means thousands charged twice" (2018-09) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45400234 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45400234 "Visa (Europe) says service returning to normal" (2018-06) https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44335804 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44335804 "Asda card machine fault leads to queues at checkouts" (2016-10) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37815973 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37815973 "RBS says it has resolved debit card computer glitch" (2016-10) https://www.bbc.com/news/business-37658559 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-37658559 "Lloyds Banking Group says card problems sorted" (2014-01) https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25907000 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25907000 "Card payments system crash disrupts shoppers" (2010-10) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11458962 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11458962 Also, interesting and somewhat unexpected contactless from long distance! "Contactless 'charging errors' at Marks and Spencer" (2013-05) https://www.bbc.com/news/business-22545804 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-22545804

kilroy123 5y ago

Here in London tons of people and places have pay touch readers like this: https://imgur.com/nNaDddR https://imgur.com/nNaDddR I'm talking museums asking for donations. To street performers in the tube. They're everywhere.

benbristow 5y ago
The lollipop and aftershave man in my local nightclub's toilet has one. I'm tempted to give him a pound next time to see what pops up on my bank statement (and for some probably counterfeit cologne). For context: I don't know if they're a thing in the States but in most male toilets in nightclubs (and more 'clubby' bars) in the UK there's usually an annoying guy in the toilet who turns off the hand driers and gives you paper to dry your hands whilst passively aggresively demanding a tip in return for a lollipop or a spray of various aftershaves/deoderants.
- sgerenser 5y ago
  Yeah “restroom attendants” are definitely a thing in the US as well. I used to think it was stupid but from the club owner’s point of view it probably helps a lot to avoid vandalism, drug use, etc. that might otherwise occur in the bathrooms. I do end up seeing a lot of people just not wash their hands because they don’t like feeling obligated to tip the guy for handing them a paper towel.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    I just take a paper towel myself. If there is a guy standing there holding the only paper towels in the bathroom, I'll just ask him why he's holding them. I wouldn't use one from him either, that just seems gross. I wouldn't tip for it in any case. It's just slightly glorified panhandling, I assume it isn't at all condoned by the club owner and they'd probably throw the guy out if they were aware. I haven't actually seen it in the US, though, just at international airports outside the country, so maybe the dynamic is different here.
    - 5y ago

londons_explore 5y ago

Indeed - I'm really surprised that Apple doesn't have some kind of "just pay another apple user" feature. I know that would open them up to lots of KYC requirements, as well as require them to do some of the evil things that financial laws require (eg. tracking all payments, closing accounts and banning users for certain things while not being able to tell the users why, freezing users money till they can present documents they don't have, etc.) But it still seems worth it to take over the payments space from venmo, cashapp and paypal, make the wall to switching to android a little taller, etc.

thefreeman 5y ago
They do support this in iMessage, it's called Apple Cash. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207875 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207875

dumbfounder 5y ago

I have seen this solved at a bar with a QR code linked to venmo.

dzhiurgis 5y ago

iPhone needs a little printer that prints a QR code that represents an NFT that was just minted in blockchain

reaperducer 5y ago

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. I totally agree. At a parking garage the other day, there was a long line of people trying to get their cars back from the valets because one person was trying to tip with some random app. "Oh, you need to download this. Yeah, open the App Store. Then download it. Yeah, it take a while. OK, now sign up. --five minutes elapse-- OK, now what's your username so I can send you the money? Did you say 'e' or 'v?' Was that '4114' or '1144?' OK. Sending now..." It took like ten minutes.