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Most frameworks (web-frameworks at least) get you from 0 to 80% in very little time. Nice layout/css etc, but they require you to learn how they want to do ever

Most frameworks (web-frameworks at least) get you from 0 to 80% in very little time. Nice layout/css etc, but they require you to learn how they want to do everything; which can be both cumbersome and time consuming. Frameworks also gives management false expectations of how long it takes to make something. "It looks like you're 80% done with the web-page already, and we've just started - great!" — Management

cube00 5y ago
"But we'd like a quick chat to understand why the last 20% took so long" — Also Management
- bjarneh 5y ago
  The good old "a quick chat"; that's when you know some blame is about to be handed out...
- munchbunny 5y ago
  I love the phrase “quick chat” because it’s rarely ever actually quick. If it was actually quick, they’d just ask it. Over time I’ve learned that the correct response is, approximately, “Sorry, I’m in the middle of [important work], please book 30 minutes for us and [stakeholders] to discuss it.” Gives me time to prepare so that I’m not caught off guard. And to bring backup if I think I need it.
  - dnautics 5y ago
    I actually had a quick chat with my teammate today. 5 minutes (well we chatted about dumb shit like changing oil on our cars for another 5). Also it wasn't bad, I was checking in to make sure his career objectives were being looked after (he just onboarded a few weeks ago).
  - switch007 5y ago
    And HR asking for a quick chat should set off greater alarm bells, especially with regards to documenting the discussion
    - commandlinefan 5y ago
      Well, there's no "preparing" for that... except making sure your LinkedIn profile is up to date.
  - hogrider 5y ago
    I find this officespeak hilarious.
Foobar8568 5y ago
Hi2u Telerik and Infragistics if that crap still exists.
hu3 5y ago
> (frameworks) require you to learn how they want to do everything; which can be both cumbersome and time consuming. New teammates will have to learn how to do things anyway. But with frameworks there's a chance they already know.
lnxg33k1 5y ago
I mean, yeah but that seems like a good investment? Like how many times you want to learn that remaining 20%? And how many times customisations are not reusable? Of course you either learn a framework and reuse it, or go something that is bespoke, and does it have the same unit test coverage? Same documentation? Same ability to hire people with common knowledge? Same ability to google issues? I am not sure, but I see only pros about frameworks (in terms of maintainability but I guess not in terms of resource usage :D) and cons in the context of people not understanding / knowing how to protect themselves from frameworks

cube00 5y ago

"But we'd like a quick chat to understand why the last 20% took so long" — Also Management

bjarneh 5y ago
The good old "a quick chat"; that's when you know some blame is about to be handed out...
munchbunny 5y ago
I love the phrase “quick chat” because it’s rarely ever actually quick. If it was actually quick, they’d just ask it. Over time I’ve learned that the correct response is, approximately, “Sorry, I’m in the middle of [important work], please book 30 minutes for us and [stakeholders] to discuss it.” Gives me time to prepare so that I’m not caught off guard. And to bring backup if I think I need it.
- dnautics 5y ago
  I actually had a quick chat with my teammate today. 5 minutes (well we chatted about dumb shit like changing oil on our cars for another 5). Also it wasn't bad, I was checking in to make sure his career objectives were being looked after (he just onboarded a few weeks ago).
- switch007 5y ago
  And HR asking for a quick chat should set off greater alarm bells, especially with regards to documenting the discussion
  - commandlinefan 5y ago
    Well, there's no "preparing" for that... except making sure your LinkedIn profile is up to date.
- hogrider 5y ago
  I find this officespeak hilarious.

Foobar8568 5y ago

Hi2u Telerik and Infragistics if that crap still exists.

hu3 5y ago

> (frameworks) require you to learn how they want to do everything; which can be both cumbersome and time consuming. New teammates will have to learn how to do things anyway. But with frameworks there's a chance they already know.

lnxg33k1 5y ago

I mean, yeah but that seems like a good investment? Like how many times you want to learn that remaining 20%? And how many times customisations are not reusable? Of course you either learn a framework and reuse it, or go something that is bespoke, and does it have the same unit test coverage? Same documentation? Same ability to hire people with common knowledge? Same ability to google issues? I am not sure, but I see only pros about frameworks (in terms of maintainability but I guess not in terms of resource usage :D) and cons in the context of people not understanding / knowing how to protect themselves from frameworks