6 ms·

>Unless you understand what the problem actually is there will be no way to fix it. Oh that's easy. The problem is with society. No one is in any way damaged o

>Unless you understand what the problem actually is there will be no way to fix it. Oh that's easy. The problem is with society. No one is in any way damaged or traumatized cause they saw some sex on a screen at approximately 13 years old. Its ridiculous we go through the intrusive charade of trying to stop them. The problem is there is no problem.

nottorp 5y ago
Usually when politicians ressurect "think of the children" initiatives they want to distract attention from something. What's the current UK scandal, besides the obvious ongoing BRExit consequences?
- onion2k 5y ago
  What's the current UK scandal, besides the obvious ongoing BRExit consequences? Unfortunately the maximum POST size Chrome allows limits my response to 4GB so I won't be able to cover it all.
- viraptor 5y ago
  Tldr news UK is pretty good at matter-of-fact summaries of those: https://youtube.com/c/TLDRNews https://youtube.com/c/TLDRNews
- jamessb 5y ago
  > What's the current UK scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partygate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partygate
MathCodeLove 5y ago
This is extremely dismissive of the issue, which does exist to some extent, even if its often over blown. The problem isn't "13 year olds being traumatized because they see sex on a screen" but "13 year olds developing porn addiction alongside their burgeoning sexuality". Porn addiction is a very real issue and todays youth is especially susceptible to it. Today a 13 y/o boy can see more breasts in an hour than every one of his prior-digital age male ancestors have seen combined. Its an absolute stimulus overload.
- Mindwipe 5y ago
  > Porn addiction is a very real issue It's literally highly contested if it even exists. The evidence base is extremely poor.
  - changxi_hn 5y ago
  - MathCodeLove 5y ago
    What's contested is if its the porn itself that causes the addiction or the feedback loop and easy access is what leads to compulsive consumption. No mainstream psychological organization is saying that there are no addictive or compulsive behaviors associated with excess porn consuption, just that it doesnt meet the critia as a medically diagnosed addiction and is closer to a compulsion. For laymen however, referring to it as an addiction is what most accurately encompasses its impact on those who become compulsive consumers of it.
    - sdze 5y ago
      Porn addiction is a marketing gimmick from the sphere of „nofap“ and co snakeoil salesmen.
      - tanseydavid 5y ago
        Can you point to any real world instance where someone is "marketing" NOFAP and profiting (or attempting to profit) from it? This assertion seems odd to me. More importantly: you should not assume that just because you do not suffer from porn addiction that others do not suffer from it.
        sdze 5y ago
        a) Build a community around a topic b) Create an identifier for this community we are NoFap and We celebrate NoNutNovember c) Sell SELF-HELP books, merchandise and services around the topic in order to guilt trip people into believing this voodoo science. i.e. https://nofap.com/groups/ https://nofap.com/groups/ It's the oldest trick in the book.
yorwba 5y ago
When I was a child, I once read a novel that featured a rape scene. While I had no idea what rape was, it was described in enough detail to be horrifying to read, so much so that I still remember it now. If it'd been a video, it'd probably have been much worse. Now I don't think that book should've been locked away in a section of the library inaccessible to children, but that doesn't mean it's absolutely safe for children to consume content intended for adults.
onion2k 5y ago
No one is in any way damaged or traumatized cause they saw some sex on a screen at approximately 13 years old. I don't think that's necessarily true. People are influenced by what they see (advertising wouldn't work if they weren't...). It's certainly possible that watching porn makes people want to emulate what they've watched. As consenting adults that's fine, but I don't think we really know what impact that has on younger people, and it would be irresponsible to just say it doesn't have any impact without studying it (just as it is to say the opposite.) I don't think there's anything really wrong with wanting to protect children and limit what they see and do until they're capable of understanding themselves well enough to deal with what they've seen. But I definitely think it has to be done in a way that actually works. This policy almost certainly won't, so it's a giant waste of time.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
davidgh 5y ago
There are a variety of documented undesirable side effects of heavy pornographic use [0],[1], including issues with mental health, sexual disfunction, and the ability to maintain normal romantic relationships. It may be hard to stop, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a problem. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7835260/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7835260/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/
- vidarh 5y ago
  Skimming these, neither of those papers appears to document any demonstrable links. They're relying on self reporting in surveys and case studies that seems to produce what is at best correlation, potentially heavily biased by the self-reporting from people who at least judging by the case studies I skim appears to have to some degree self-diagnosed issues they may or may not have been right about.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - davidgh 5y ago
    I made a previous comment that I deleted because it was a bit sarcastic which doesn’t help the conversation. More seriously: If you’re raising children, do you attempt to place safeguards in your family to prevent the potential outcomes discussed in the papers, or do you dismiss them because the correlations aren’t strong enough? Never before in human history has the volume and type of pornography been so universally available. We’re in brand new territory here, and I think it’s worth paying attention to even self-reported anecdotes as the science is still being settled.
    - vidarh 5y ago
      I dismiss them because there's literally decades worth of research into the effects of porn which to my knowledge has failed to come up with anything more than very minor effects, and when the best that's coming up now is some poorly constructed survey papers trying to infer things from self-reporting it's a strong indication there's nothing worth paying attention to, given the amount of effort and money that has been poured into it from groups with a strong interest in finding something. If I trusted self-reported anecdotes I'd also seek to protect my family against ghosts, extra-terrestrial probing sessions and vengeful gods, among a long range of other risks I don't take seriously. If you can't provide evidence that gives a stronger indication of a damaging effect than that, I'll treat it the same way I threat those risks. If anything, if those studies are the best you can find it reassures me that the risks are near non-existent.

nottorp 5y ago

Usually when politicians ressurect "think of the children" initiatives they want to distract attention from something. What's the current UK scandal, besides the obvious ongoing BRExit consequences?

onion2k 5y ago
What's the current UK scandal, besides the obvious ongoing BRExit consequences? Unfortunately the maximum POST size Chrome allows limits my response to 4GB so I won't be able to cover it all.
viraptor 5y ago
Tldr news UK is pretty good at matter-of-fact summaries of those: https://youtube.com/c/TLDRNews https://youtube.com/c/TLDRNews
jamessb 5y ago
> What's the current UK scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partygate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partygate

MathCodeLove 5y ago

This is extremely dismissive of the issue, which does exist to some extent, even if its often over blown. The problem isn't "13 year olds being traumatized because they see sex on a screen" but "13 year olds developing porn addiction alongside their burgeoning sexuality". Porn addiction is a very real issue and todays youth is especially susceptible to it. Today a 13 y/o boy can see more breasts in an hour than every one of his prior-digital age male ancestors have seen combined. Its an absolute stimulus overload.

Mindwipe 5y ago
> Porn addiction is a very real issue It's literally highly contested if it even exists. The evidence base is extremely poor.
- changxi_hn 5y ago
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  What's contested is if its the porn itself that causes the addiction or the feedback loop and easy access is what leads to compulsive consumption. No mainstream psychological organization is saying that there are no addictive or compulsive behaviors associated with excess porn consuption, just that it doesnt meet the critia as a medically diagnosed addiction and is closer to a compulsion. For laymen however, referring to it as an addiction is what most accurately encompasses its impact on those who become compulsive consumers of it.
  - sdze 5y ago
    Porn addiction is a marketing gimmick from the sphere of „nofap“ and co snakeoil salesmen.
    - tanseydavid 5y ago
      Can you point to any real world instance where someone is "marketing" NOFAP and profiting (or attempting to profit) from it? This assertion seems odd to me. More importantly: you should not assume that just because you do not suffer from porn addiction that others do not suffer from it.
      - sdze 5y ago
        a) Build a community around a topic b) Create an identifier for this community we are NoFap and We celebrate NoNutNovember c) Sell SELF-HELP books, merchandise and services around the topic in order to guilt trip people into believing this voodoo science. i.e. https://nofap.com/groups/ https://nofap.com/groups/ It's the oldest trick in the book.

yorwba 5y ago

When I was a child, I once read a novel that featured a rape scene. While I had no idea what rape was, it was described in enough detail to be horrifying to read, so much so that I still remember it now. If it'd been a video, it'd probably have been much worse. Now I don't think that book should've been locked away in a section of the library inaccessible to children, but that doesn't mean it's absolutely safe for children to consume content intended for adults.

onion2k 5y ago

No one is in any way damaged or traumatized cause they saw some sex on a screen at approximately 13 years old. I don't think that's necessarily true. People are influenced by what they see (advertising wouldn't work if they weren't...). It's certainly possible that watching porn makes people want to emulate what they've watched. As consenting adults that's fine, but I don't think we really know what impact that has on younger people, and it would be irresponsible to just say it doesn't have any impact without studying it (just as it is to say the opposite.) I don't think there's anything really wrong with wanting to protect children and limit what they see and do until they're capable of understanding themselves well enough to deal with what they've seen. But I definitely think it has to be done in a way that actually works. This policy almost certainly won't, so it's a giant waste of time.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

davidgh 5y ago

There are a variety of documented undesirable side effects of heavy pornographic use [0],[1], including issues with mental health, sexual disfunction, and the ability to maintain normal romantic relationships. It may be hard to stop, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a problem. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7835260/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7835260/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/

vidarh 5y ago
Skimming these, neither of those papers appears to document any demonstrable links. They're relying on self reporting in surveys and case studies that seems to produce what is at best correlation, potentially heavily biased by the self-reporting from people who at least judging by the case studies I skim appears to have to some degree self-diagnosed issues they may or may not have been right about.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- davidgh 5y ago
  I made a previous comment that I deleted because it was a bit sarcastic which doesn’t help the conversation. More seriously: If you’re raising children, do you attempt to place safeguards in your family to prevent the potential outcomes discussed in the papers, or do you dismiss them because the correlations aren’t strong enough? Never before in human history has the volume and type of pornography been so universally available. We’re in brand new territory here, and I think it’s worth paying attention to even self-reported anecdotes as the science is still being settled.
  - vidarh 5y ago
    I dismiss them because there's literally decades worth of research into the effects of porn which to my knowledge has failed to come up with anything more than very minor effects, and when the best that's coming up now is some poorly constructed survey papers trying to infer things from self-reporting it's a strong indication there's nothing worth paying attention to, given the amount of effort and money that has been poured into it from groups with a strong interest in finding something. If I trusted self-reported anecdotes I'd also seek to protect my family against ghosts, extra-terrestrial probing sessions and vengeful gods, among a long range of other risks I don't take seriously. If you can't provide evidence that gives a stronger indication of a damaging effect than that, I'll treat it the same way I threat those risks. If anything, if those studies are the best you can find it reassures me that the risks are near non-existent.