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HN is one of the best designed websites I use daily. The information density is unmatched on the "modern" web.

alksjdalkj 5y ago
So are you refuting the assertion that HN does a poor job with accessibility? Or just saying that you don't care because it works well for you?
- benrbray 5y ago
  I'm saying we shouldn't make things substantially worse for 95% of people just to make things marginally better for 5%. Usually "accessibility" on the web means adding 1em padding around everything so that I can only see one comment at time on my 39" monitor. The parent comment mentioned CSS changes, but I basically think the appearance should stay the same, and any accessibility improvements can probably be accomplished by changing the HTML for better screen reader compatibility, if needed.
  - realityking 5y ago
    There’s more to accessibility than just supporting screen readers, though that’s what people seem to think of first. Here’s a good starting point from Mozilla covering accessibility: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Tools_and_testing/Cross_browser_testing/Accessibility https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Tools_and_tes...
    - benrbray 5y ago
      Most of the advice on that page is about using the correct semantic HTML elements as well as aria annotations, which is what I had in mind. Basically the appearance should stay the same, but I can definitely see how fixing up the HTML could make the page more navigable by keyboard / screen reader / etc..
  - searchableguy 5y ago
    For one, HN could stop using gif tags for indenting the comments and use modern css instead. It's one of the only sites which does this today.
  - Flimm 5y ago
    HN is terrible to use on touchscreens (smartphones, tablets, certain laptops) and I wouldn't be surprised if more than 5% of HN's target audience are negatively affected by it. And I doubt that many people use 39 inch monitors, certainly not 95% of the target audience.
  - weare138 5y ago
    It's not the appearance. Load it on a mobile browser and you'll see what everyone is talking about. You wouldn't even have to change the desktop version. Just have a mobile option too. HN's layout is so deadpan simple is would be incredibly easy to build a mobile interface with a modern CSS framework.
DoreenMichele 5y ago
I love HN and it works well for me, even on mobile and I'm seriously handicapped, including visually impaired. It's also got known accessibility issues, including for people who are blind or otherwise more visually impaired than I am. The lead mod has acknowledged this in comments.

So are you refuting the assertion that HN does a poor job with accessibility? Or just saying that you don't care because it works well for you?

benrbray 5y ago
I'm saying we shouldn't make things substantially worse for 95% of people just to make things marginally better for 5%. Usually "accessibility" on the web means adding 1em padding around everything so that I can only see one comment at time on my 39" monitor. The parent comment mentioned CSS changes, but I basically think the appearance should stay the same, and any accessibility improvements can probably be accomplished by changing the HTML for better screen reader compatibility, if needed.
- realityking 5y ago
  There’s more to accessibility than just supporting screen readers, though that’s what people seem to think of first. Here’s a good starting point from Mozilla covering accessibility: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Tools_and_testing/Cross_browser_testing/Accessibility https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Tools_and_tes...
  - benrbray 5y ago
    Most of the advice on that page is about using the correct semantic HTML elements as well as aria annotations, which is what I had in mind. Basically the appearance should stay the same, but I can definitely see how fixing up the HTML could make the page more navigable by keyboard / screen reader / etc..
- searchableguy 5y ago
  For one, HN could stop using gif tags for indenting the comments and use modern css instead. It's one of the only sites which does this today.
- Flimm 5y ago
  HN is terrible to use on touchscreens (smartphones, tablets, certain laptops) and I wouldn't be surprised if more than 5% of HN's target audience are negatively affected by it. And I doubt that many people use 39 inch monitors, certainly not 95% of the target audience.
- weare138 5y ago
  It's not the appearance. Load it on a mobile browser and you'll see what everyone is talking about. You wouldn't even have to change the desktop version. Just have a mobile option too. HN's layout is so deadpan simple is would be incredibly easy to build a mobile interface with a modern CSS framework.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

I love HN and it works well for me, even on mobile and I'm seriously handicapped, including visually impaired. It's also got known accessibility issues, including for people who are blind or otherwise more visually impaired than I am. The lead mod has acknowledged this in comments.