4 ms·

Can I sign up without a number? Why does Signal require an identifier that is very difficult and perhaps illegal to make anonymous?

by gardnr 5y ago

__MatrixMan__ 5y ago
Signal stores your contact list on your phone (and not on their servers). Unlike other devices, people typically only have one active phone at any time, which means that your contact list on your phone can be your contact list on any linked device (its primary, they're secondary). If they didn't anchor to something that they knew you only had one of, then it's not clear which of your devices should be authoritative. The alternative is to store your contact list on their servers, but they don't do that because they aren't confident that they could do so in a way that keeps your contacts hidden from somebody who gained access to their servers. Often, letting an adversary know who you associate with is just as dangerous as letting them know what you say to those people. Having your phone number be the key means that metadata security comes down to whether you lock your phone instead of whether the bad guys can get a warrant to compromise Signal's servers. It's a worse user experience, but I can understand not wanting to be responsible for the bad things that happen when bad guys map a target's social network.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  Mobile telephone subscriptions passed global population 7 years ago.[1] More than 1 phone is not so unusual. End to end encrypted messages are harder than end to end encrypted contacts. Using phone numbers encourages people to use their phone's contacts app. Most people have theirs connected to Google or Apple. If they have other devices especially. [1] https://archive.fo/6je9z https://archive.fo/6je9z
  - __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
    To your first point, if you have two phone numbers then you're probably keeping them separate for a reason, and so their contacts should be kept separate by the app too. As for your second: what are the "ends" you're taking about with this "end to end encrypted contacts" idea? Certainly, a contact list has to be visible at the device--otherwise it's useless. Where else would you want it to be visible?

Can I sign up without a number? Why does Signal require an identifier that is very difficult and perhaps illegal to make anonymous?

by gardnr 5y ago

Can I sign up without a number? Why does Signal require an identifier that is very difficult and perhaps illegal to make anonymous?

__MatrixMan__ 5y ago

Signal stores your contact list on your phone (and not on their servers). Unlike other devices, people typically only have one active phone at any time, which means that your contact list on your phone can be your contact list on any linked device (its primary, they're secondary). If they didn't anchor to something that they knew you only had one of, then it's not clear which of your devices should be authoritative. The alternative is to store your contact list on their servers, but they don't do that because they aren't confident that they could do so in a way that keeps your contacts hidden from somebody who gained access to their servers. Often, letting an adversary know who you associate with is just as dangerous as letting them know what you say to those people. Having your phone number be the key means that metadata security comes down to whether you lock your phone instead of whether the bad guys can get a warrant to compromise Signal's servers. It's a worse user experience, but I can understand not wanting to be responsible for the bad things that happen when bad guys map a target's social network.

pseudalopex 5y ago
Mobile telephone subscriptions passed global population 7 years ago.[1] More than 1 phone is not so unusual. End to end encrypted messages are harder than end to end encrypted contacts. Using phone numbers encourages people to use their phone's contacts app. Most people have theirs connected to Google or Apple. If they have other devices especially. [1] https://archive.fo/6je9z https://archive.fo/6je9z
- __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
  To your first point, if you have two phone numbers then you're probably keeping them separate for a reason, and so their contacts should be kept separate by the app too. As for your second: what are the "ends" you're taking about with this "end to end encrypted contacts" idea? Certainly, a contact list has to be visible at the device--otherwise it's useless. Where else would you want it to be visible?