7 ms·

99% of people wouldn't dare taking Google to court, because they use Google services and if Google decides to close their accounts and stop doing business with

99% of people wouldn't dare taking Google to court, because they use Google services and if Google decides to close their accounts and stop doing business with them going forward, they stand to lose much more than the price of the device.

martimarkov 5y ago
Then you take them court yet again this time for discrimination. Also this is not a thing that can happen I think. Like for example epic vs Apple. Apple didn’t have the ability to close down all accounts of epic.
- ocdtrekkie 5y ago
  Apple tried though, and the only reason they didn't succeed is Epic has high priced lawyers like Apple does. These companies can just bankrupt you with legal fees. For an individual, tech companies can absolutely beat you over the head illegally and count on their better lawyers to make it stick. Unless you're Tim Sweeney level loaded I would recommend against trying it.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- kelnos 5y ago
  I think you mean "retaliation"? Regardless, unclear if you'd win that, and during the many months while you're litigating this, you still have no access to your Google account, unless you can get the judge to order Google to at least temporarily give you access while the court case is being worked out. All of this is far from certain, and I would certainly understand someone not wanting to assume the risk. I definitely wouldn't. And that's yet another thing that sucks about this: Google isn't accountable here because they hold so much power over our digital lives.
Stratoscope 5y ago
Oh, good point! I wasn't really serious; it just seemed like cheap entertainment. But now consider me terrified.
ocdtrekkie 5y ago
This is a very big risk here. Parent should definitely not still have everything pointed at Gmail before they file anything.
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
yes, obviously should move everything off services before proceeding, proceed, and be ready to write an article on Medium about Google disabling your services when you take them to small claims court after they ripped you off by turning your smart display into a dumb one.
the_other 5y ago
Isn’t this reason enough to stop using Google?
- danuker 5y ago
  But it's free*!
urthor 5y ago
FYI this is open and shut antitrust. If they tried to do this you'd have a wonderful legal case against them if you so choose.
- RC_ITR 5y ago
  I love the energy, but I'm not sure you're right. Do you have specific case law you'd cite?
  - urthor 5y ago
    Without limiting the answer to the United States: Antitrust law is very complicated because there's multiple different legal concepts in play. The punitive action response above is probably much better informed than my off the cuff one, and probably applies to this case moreso. However, one principal test example I had in mind is if they close someone's Google Ads account. For most businesses, removing the ability to advertise on Google would seriously impact their viability to compete with their competitors. That's a classic example of Google being in a "market dominant position" vis a vis antitrust law. Now the likely hood of this happening is close to zero. Because Google does NOT want to establish ANY sort of legal precedent ANYWHERE related to Google being in a market dominant position. That would impact its business hugely.
    - RC_ITR 5y ago
      I just think you’re applying the word anti-trust incorrectly. There are plenty of other non-Google ad networks, they just aren’t as good. Facebook obviously stands out as an example. Amazon another. Same for email clients. A regulator may see Google’s share in any of those markets and use that as evidence of monopoly power, but google bans plenty of people from using their services every day. I don’t think that’s the mechanism through which anyone can regulate them on anti-trust grounds.
- nine_k 5y ago
  Don't their EULAs say something like "you lose the license to the product if you sue us"? I remember that such a clause used to exist in the React's licence, and I vaguely remember seeing it on some EULA I accepted recently. (I don't have the money to sue a megacorp anyway.)
scarface74 5y ago
99% of people depend on Google services? There is no Google service for which I can’t find a better alternative where they would cut me off.
- shawnz 5y ago
  Spam filtering?
  - function_seven 5y ago
    I get very little spam in my Fastmail inbox.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    I just moved my email from GMail to Fastmail a week ago, and I still get no spam. Spam folder is still full of it, though.
- eternityforest 5y ago
  Google is baked into Android. All your saved passwords go if your account goes. Some of which may be unrecoverable if your email also goes. Google assistant devices can't work with Alexa so that means buying a new device. All your "sign in with google" OAuth sites go. It would be a major hassle to move away from Google, and I'm not even sure I'd even trust any other company to do all that anyway. Google's business model is spying on you, so you can sortof trust they won't pull the major popular services as long as you play by the rules exactly. For an average person thay would seem to be the safest option. At least until recently, they've pulled more and more stuff lately.
  - pmontra 5y ago
    If Google bans my personal account I lose access to Google Play, Translate, some useless files on Google Drive and abandoned projects on Google Cloud and maybe nothing else. I won't be able to backup WhatsApp and move it to another phone, this is annoying. No Google Play means no updates for the banking apps so I'll be unable to log into my banks soon (they do 2FA with their app.) This is huge. Of course most Android users are more invested in the ecosystem than I am. I'm not sure I can create another account with the same phone number. I'm not going to buy an iPhone or an iPad so I'm not sure what I'll be going to do. Change number? BTW not Linux phones, too many apps I need are not working there (especially banks.)
grogenaut 5y ago
I believe if google takes anything that could be seen as punitive action against you because you filed a lawsuit they open themselves up to much larger damages. When I was the class representative in a class action law suit, during the deposition the very first thing the lawyer defending the company we were suing opened with "I want to assure you that you will continue to receive the very best service, and we will take no actions against you for exercising your rights. If you feel this is not being honored reach out to me directly. We take this very seriously." and handed me their card. Then we got down to the deposition. For me personally them taking that action against me would have been a win win as it would have majorly increased my payout. This was a car dealer so I would just go to another mechanic. Or buy out of state. For google? I'd need to move some files and update a few companies on my address, I have alternate factors on the things I care about anyway.
- kingcharles 5y ago
  > I believe if google takes anything that could be seen as punitive action against you because you filed a lawsuit they open themselves up to much larger damages. Does it, though? Their ToS almost certainly allows them to close your account for no reason. I made a support request to my bank recently and they decided to use the ToS to simply close my account instead of deal with the request which would have required a change to their immutable support script.
  - urthor 5y ago
    Terms of service are, legally speaking, hogwash. Their purpose is almost entirely to scare legally uninformed end users.
    - elil17 5y ago
      Yeah but you can terminate an unpaid service for no reason, that’s well established. It’s not even governed by contract law because there’s no consideration. The real reason small claims is a bad idea is that this should be handled through a class action.
quickthrower2 5y ago
No need to take Google to court. Just return the defunct product for a refund. Buy a product that you plug into a TV that lets you use the web. If 90% of people get a refund, then Lenovo will sue Google.
- kova12 5y ago
  I presume his devices are way outside refund period
  - soared 5y ago
    Some credit cards have policies for consumer disputes and merchant misconduct which google’s action could fall under. I wasn’t able to find a good explanation on mobile as I’d imagine they are purposefully deep in a terms of agreement document, but this link has some info: https://www.fidelitypayment.com/resources/chargeback-prevention/ https://www.fidelitypayment.com/resources/chargeback-prevent...
hajdkl8 5y ago

martimarkov 5y ago

Then you take them court yet again this time for discrimination. Also this is not a thing that can happen I think. Like for example epic vs Apple. Apple didn’t have the ability to close down all accounts of epic.

ocdtrekkie 5y ago
Apple tried though, and the only reason they didn't succeed is Epic has high priced lawyers like Apple does. These companies can just bankrupt you with legal fees. For an individual, tech companies can absolutely beat you over the head illegally and count on their better lawyers to make it stick. Unless you're Tim Sweeney level loaded I would recommend against trying it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
kelnos 5y ago
I think you mean "retaliation"? Regardless, unclear if you'd win that, and during the many months while you're litigating this, you still have no access to your Google account, unless you can get the judge to order Google to at least temporarily give you access while the court case is being worked out. All of this is far from certain, and I would certainly understand someone not wanting to assume the risk. I definitely wouldn't. And that's yet another thing that sucks about this: Google isn't accountable here because they hold so much power over our digital lives.

Stratoscope 5y ago

Oh, good point! I wasn't really serious; it just seemed like cheap entertainment. But now consider me terrified.

ocdtrekkie 5y ago

This is a very big risk here. Parent should definitely not still have everything pointed at Gmail before they file anything.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

yes, obviously should move everything off services before proceeding, proceed, and be ready to write an article on Medium about Google disabling your services when you take them to small claims court after they ripped you off by turning your smart display into a dumb one.

the_other 5y ago

Isn’t this reason enough to stop using Google?

danuker 5y ago
But it's free*!

urthor 5y ago

FYI this is open and shut antitrust. If they tried to do this you'd have a wonderful legal case against them if you so choose.

RC_ITR 5y ago
I love the energy, but I'm not sure you're right. Do you have specific case law you'd cite?
- urthor 5y ago
  Without limiting the answer to the United States: Antitrust law is very complicated because there's multiple different legal concepts in play. The punitive action response above is probably much better informed than my off the cuff one, and probably applies to this case moreso. However, one principal test example I had in mind is if they close someone's Google Ads account. For most businesses, removing the ability to advertise on Google would seriously impact their viability to compete with their competitors. That's a classic example of Google being in a "market dominant position" vis a vis antitrust law. Now the likely hood of this happening is close to zero. Because Google does NOT want to establish ANY sort of legal precedent ANYWHERE related to Google being in a market dominant position. That would impact its business hugely.
  - RC_ITR 5y ago
    I just think you’re applying the word anti-trust incorrectly. There are plenty of other non-Google ad networks, they just aren’t as good. Facebook obviously stands out as an example. Amazon another. Same for email clients. A regulator may see Google’s share in any of those markets and use that as evidence of monopoly power, but google bans plenty of people from using their services every day. I don’t think that’s the mechanism through which anyone can regulate them on anti-trust grounds.
nine_k 5y ago
Don't their EULAs say something like "you lose the license to the product if you sue us"? I remember that such a clause used to exist in the React's licence, and I vaguely remember seeing it on some EULA I accepted recently. (I don't have the money to sue a megacorp anyway.)

scarface74 5y ago

99% of people depend on Google services? There is no Google service for which I can’t find a better alternative where they would cut me off.

shawnz 5y ago
Spam filtering?
- function_seven 5y ago
  I get very little spam in my Fastmail inbox.
- kelnos 5y ago
  I just moved my email from GMail to Fastmail a week ago, and I still get no spam. Spam folder is still full of it, though.
eternityforest 5y ago
Google is baked into Android. All your saved passwords go if your account goes. Some of which may be unrecoverable if your email also goes. Google assistant devices can't work with Alexa so that means buying a new device. All your "sign in with google" OAuth sites go. It would be a major hassle to move away from Google, and I'm not even sure I'd even trust any other company to do all that anyway. Google's business model is spying on you, so you can sortof trust they won't pull the major popular services as long as you play by the rules exactly. For an average person thay would seem to be the safest option. At least until recently, they've pulled more and more stuff lately.
- pmontra 5y ago
  If Google bans my personal account I lose access to Google Play, Translate, some useless files on Google Drive and abandoned projects on Google Cloud and maybe nothing else. I won't be able to backup WhatsApp and move it to another phone, this is annoying. No Google Play means no updates for the banking apps so I'll be unable to log into my banks soon (they do 2FA with their app.) This is huge. Of course most Android users are more invested in the ecosystem than I am. I'm not sure I can create another account with the same phone number. I'm not going to buy an iPhone or an iPad so I'm not sure what I'll be going to do. Change number? BTW not Linux phones, too many apps I need are not working there (especially banks.)

grogenaut 5y ago

I believe if google takes anything that could be seen as punitive action against you because you filed a lawsuit they open themselves up to much larger damages. When I was the class representative in a class action law suit, during the deposition the very first thing the lawyer defending the company we were suing opened with "I want to assure you that you will continue to receive the very best service, and we will take no actions against you for exercising your rights. If you feel this is not being honored reach out to me directly. We take this very seriously." and handed me their card. Then we got down to the deposition. For me personally them taking that action against me would have been a win win as it would have majorly increased my payout. This was a car dealer so I would just go to another mechanic. Or buy out of state. For google? I'd need to move some files and update a few companies on my address, I have alternate factors on the things I care about anyway.

kingcharles 5y ago
> I believe if google takes anything that could be seen as punitive action against you because you filed a lawsuit they open themselves up to much larger damages. Does it, though? Their ToS almost certainly allows them to close your account for no reason. I made a support request to my bank recently and they decided to use the ToS to simply close my account instead of deal with the request which would have required a change to their immutable support script.
- urthor 5y ago
  Terms of service are, legally speaking, hogwash. Their purpose is almost entirely to scare legally uninformed end users.
  - elil17 5y ago
    Yeah but you can terminate an unpaid service for no reason, that’s well established. It’s not even governed by contract law because there’s no consideration. The real reason small claims is a bad idea is that this should be handled through a class action.

quickthrower2 5y ago

No need to take Google to court. Just return the defunct product for a refund. Buy a product that you plug into a TV that lets you use the web. If 90% of people get a refund, then Lenovo will sue Google.

kova12 5y ago
I presume his devices are way outside refund period
- soared 5y ago
  Some credit cards have policies for consumer disputes and merchant misconduct which google’s action could fall under. I wasn’t able to find a good explanation on mobile as I’d imagine they are purposefully deep in a terms of agreement document, but this link has some info: https://www.fidelitypayment.com/resources/chargeback-prevention/ https://www.fidelitypayment.com/resources/chargeback-prevent...

hajdkl8 5y ago