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Let's say you ask your Lenovo Smart Display, "What is a Rat Terrier?" You get a nice summary screen with a photo of a Rat Terrier, and the assistant says, "Acc

• smnrchrds 5y ago
  99% of people wouldn't dare taking Google to court, because they use Google services and if Google decides to close their accounts and stop doing business with them going forward, they stand to lose much more than the price of the device.
  • martimarkov 5y ago
    Then you take them court yet again this time for discrimination. Also this is not a thing that can happen I think. Like for example epic vs Apple. Apple didn’t have the ability to close down all accounts of epic.
    • ocdtrekkie 5y ago
      Apple tried though, and the only reason they didn't succeed is Epic has high priced lawyers like Apple does. These companies can just bankrupt you with legal fees. For an individual, tech companies can absolutely beat you over the head illegally and count on their better lawyers to make it stick. Unless you're Tim Sweeney level loaded I would recommend against trying it.
      • deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    • kelnos 5y ago
      I think you mean "retaliation"? Regardless, unclear if you'd win that, and during the many months while you're litigating this, you still have no access to your Google account, unless you can get the judge to order Google to at least temporarily give you access while the court case is being worked out. All of this is far from certain, and I would certainly understand someone not wanting to assume the risk. I definitely wouldn't. And that's yet another thing that sucks about this: Google isn't accountable here because they hold so much power over our digital lives.
  • Stratoscope 5y ago
    Oh, good point! I wasn't really serious; it just seemed like cheap entertainment. But now consider me terrified.
  • ocdtrekkie 5y ago
    This is a very big risk here. Parent should definitely not still have everything pointed at Gmail before they file anything.
  • bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    yes, obviously should move everything off services before proceeding, proceed, and be ready to write an article on Medium about Google disabling your services when you take them to small claims court after they ripped you off by turning your smart display into a dumb one.
  • the_other 5y ago
    Isn’t this reason enough to stop using Google?
    • danuker 5y ago
      But it's free*!
  • urthor 5y ago
    FYI this is open and shut antitrust. If they tried to do this you'd have a wonderful legal case against them if you so choose.
    • RC_ITR 5y ago
      I love the energy, but I'm not sure you're right. Do you have specific case law you'd cite?
      • urthor 5y ago
        Without limiting the answer to the United States: Antitrust law is very complicated because there's multiple different legal concepts in play. The punitive action response above is probably much better informed than my off the cuff one, and probably applies to this case moreso. However, one principal test example I had in mind is if they close someone's Google Ads account. For most businesses, removing the ability to advertise on Google would seriously impact their viability to compete with their competitors. That's a classic example of Google being in a "market dominant position" vis a vis antitrust law. Now the likely hood of this happening is close to zero. Because Google does NOT want to establish ANY sort of legal precedent ANYWHERE related to Google being in a market dominant position. That would impact its business hugely.
        • RC_ITR 5y ago
          I just think you’re applying the word anti-trust incorrectly. There are plenty of other non-Google ad networks, they just aren’t as good. Facebook obviously stands out as an example. Amazon another. Same for email clients. A regulator may see Google’s share in any of those markets and use that as evidence of monopoly power, but google bans plenty of people from using their services every day. I don’t think that’s the mechanism through which anyone can regulate them on anti-trust grounds.
    • nine_k 5y ago
      Don't their EULAs say something like "you lose the license to the product if you sue us"? I remember that such a clause used to exist in the React's licence, and I vaguely remember seeing it on some EULA I accepted recently. (I don't have the money to sue a megacorp anyway.)
  • scarface74 5y ago
    99% of people depend on Google services? There is no Google service for which I can’t find a better alternative where they would cut me off.
    • shawnz 5y ago
      Spam filtering?
      • function_seven 5y ago
        I get very little spam in my Fastmail inbox.
      • kelnos 5y ago
        I just moved my email from GMail to Fastmail a week ago, and I still get no spam. Spam folder is still full of it, though.
    • eternityforest 5y ago
      Google is baked into Android. All your saved passwords go if your account goes. Some of which may be unrecoverable if your email also goes. Google assistant devices can't work with Alexa so that means buying a new device. All your "sign in with google" OAuth sites go. It would be a major hassle to move away from Google, and I'm not even sure I'd even trust any other company to do all that anyway. Google's business model is spying on you, so you can sortof trust they won't pull the major popular services as long as you play by the rules exactly. For an average person thay would seem to be the safest option. At least until recently, they've pulled more and more stuff lately.
      • pmontra 5y ago
        If Google bans my personal account I lose access to Google Play, Translate, some useless files on Google Drive and abandoned projects on Google Cloud and maybe nothing else. I won't be able to backup WhatsApp and move it to another phone, this is annoying. No Google Play means no updates for the banking apps so I'll be unable to log into my banks soon (they do 2FA with their app.) This is huge. Of course most Android users are more invested in the ecosystem than I am. I'm not sure I can create another account with the same phone number. I'm not going to buy an iPhone or an iPad so I'm not sure what I'll be going to do. Change number? BTW not Linux phones, too many apps I need are not working there (especially banks.)
  • grogenaut 5y ago
    I believe if google takes anything that could be seen as punitive action against you because you filed a lawsuit they open themselves up to much larger damages. When I was the class representative in a class action law suit, during the deposition the very first thing the lawyer defending the company we were suing opened with "I want to assure you that you will continue to receive the very best service, and we will take no actions against you for exercising your rights. If you feel this is not being honored reach out to me directly. We take this very seriously." and handed me their card. Then we got down to the deposition. For me personally them taking that action against me would have been a win win as it would have majorly increased my payout. This was a car dealer so I would just go to another mechanic. Or buy out of state. For google? I'd need to move some files and update a few companies on my address, I have alternate factors on the things I care about anyway.
    • kingcharles 5y ago
      > I believe if google takes anything that could be seen as punitive action against you because you filed a lawsuit they open themselves up to much larger damages. Does it, though? Their ToS almost certainly allows them to close your account for no reason. I made a support request to my bank recently and they decided to use the ToS to simply close my account instead of deal with the request which would have required a change to their immutable support script.
      • urthor 5y ago
        Terms of service are, legally speaking, hogwash. Their purpose is almost entirely to scare legally uninformed end users.
        • elil17 5y ago
          Yeah but you can terminate an unpaid service for no reason, that’s well established. It’s not even governed by contract law because there’s no consideration. The real reason small claims is a bad idea is that this should be handled through a class action.
  • quickthrower2 5y ago
    No need to take Google to court. Just return the defunct product for a refund. Buy a product that you plug into a TV that lets you use the web. If 90% of people get a refund, then Lenovo will sue Google.
    • kova12 5y ago
      I presume his devices are way outside refund period
      • soared 5y ago
        Some credit cards have policies for consumer disputes and merchant misconduct which google’s action could fall under. I wasn’t able to find a good explanation on mobile as I’d imagine they are purposefully deep in a terms of agreement document, but this link has some info: https://www.fidelitypayment.com/resources/chargeback-prevention/ https://www.fidelitypayment.com/resources/chargeback-prevent...
  • hajdkl8 5y ago
• websap 5y ago
  I really hope you do.
• GEBBL 5y ago
  Look like their own support agents are unaware of the change.
• 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
  > I am thinking of filing against Google in small claims court to be refunded the price I paid for my three Lenovo Smart Displays. I hate to break it you you but those displays are not yours, unfortunately.
  • bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    that's for the court to decide. Probably google won't show up so I would think it likely with a receipt for payment the court would decide the devices were indeed his/or hers.
    • 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
      I was just making a cheeky comment related to software freedom.
• yumraj 5y ago
  > I am thinking of filing against Google in small claims court to be refunded the price I paid for my three Lenovo Smart Displays. IMNAL, but won't you have a better chance of success going against Lenovo than Google, since it's a Lenovo device. Just for record, when Sony killed support for their smart clock, forgot what it's called, they gave everyone something - we got a Sony bluetooth speaker. Edit: In Android generally you can uninstall updates for individual services - did you try that?
  • Stratoscope 5y ago
    Interesting idea about suing Lenovo instead. But I like Lenovo! The Smart Display is a very sweet piece of machinery. It's Google who damaged this machine with their forced update. Dunno about rolling back any Android services, this is basically a kitchen appliance that Google controls my interaction with. As much as I love to hack into systems, I don't see a way in there that would be worth my time.
    • starfallg 5y ago
      Regardless of your preference and who manages the updates to your device, your contractual relationship was with the retailer and Lenovo (the manufacturer), not with Google.
    • iam-TJ 5y ago
      If you're serious about pursuing Google then investigate the grounds for claiming "Tortious Interference".
  • Animats 5y ago
    Talk to a lawyer, but, strategically, this is usually when you sue both parties. That forces them to deal with each other, and eventually their blaming each other ends up being argued in front of a judge.
• paxys 5y ago
  Why would you sue Google and not Lenovo? Google didn't promise you anything to begin with, the device manufacturer did.
  • fsckboy 5y ago
    when you sue for damages, you sue the party who damaged you. if I throw a rock through your lenovo, you don't sue lenovo.
    • paxys 5y ago
      Google didn't "damage" anyone by choosing to upgrade their OS. Lenovo was the one who made a promise at the time of the device sale, and now they are no longer abiding by it. Of course software features are taken away all the time, so that probably won't fly either.
      • mdoms 5y ago
        • InitialLastName 5y ago
          You're getting downvoted because you turned aggressive, but you're also not looking at this in quite the way that the legal system might. When Lenovo sold a product that (presumably) depended on a service they had under contract (even if just a EULA) with Google, they made a promise of continued functionality to the user. Google changed the service, causing damages to the user, yes, but as Lenovo is the mediator of the exchange, the user sues Lenovo (for selling a device that stopped functioning) and then Lenovo sues Google (for the damages of them getting sued.
  • drzaiusapelord 5y ago
    Yep also you signed a hefty EULA with Lenovo allowing just this. Lenovo uses the google home software modified for its product. This is the same problem android phones have. Google moves on and OEMs don't bother to keep up. Or OEM's contract end and they don't want to pay to renew. These hit the market in 2018 so they were most likely licensed in 2017, so that 5 year just expired and now they can't use whatever google service anymore. That doesn't make it morally right, but legally, this isn't a case that's going to work out. If cases like this did work, the tech industry would collapse because every ambulance chaser would sue over any tiny software change.
• gman83 5y ago
  Wayback machine has the old version: https://web.archive.org/web/20211006161159/https://support.google.com/assistant/answer/11067831?hl=en&ref_topic=7172845 https://web.archive.org/web/20211006161159/https://support.g...
  • hnburnsy 5y ago
    They don't even have the courtesy to list the last update date\time for the support page.
• hayleox 5y ago
  Be sure to do Google Checkout before you file your claim, in case they decide to deactivate your account
  • Stratoscope 5y ago
    I think you mean Google Takeout? But point well taken. In any case I wasn't serious about that.
    • danuker 5y ago
      Of course not. All hail our robot overlords!
• eyegor 5y ago
  If your personal vandetta is strong enough, you could represent yourself and only pay a few hundred in filing and court fees. It's fairly common to do that in small claims court so the judges are used to shmucks. And I would be shocked if Google/Lenovo spent money on lawyers for a case this cheap, they'd probably lead with a settlement offer for $2k or whatever.
  • kelnos 5y ago
    Some states don't even allow lawyers in small claims court.
    • SuoDuanDao 5y ago
      How does that work if the defendent is a corporation? Google could only hire a paralegal to represent them?
      • steelframe 5y ago
        For anything small claims Google would most likely settle as a matter of policy. The instant you file, you've already cost the company way more than the max judgement you can get in small claims.
      • jimmydorry 5y ago
        Typically product managers
  • Nextgrid 5y ago
    Small claims court is very easy & straightforward in the UK. The low complexity of the cases and the relatively low stakes means representing yourself is a valid strategy.
  • kingcharles 5y ago
    Having spent years in court, I would guarantee once you serve Google they will just get a local-ish law firm to turn up and represent them at any cost. And the lawyer will probably know the judge. And judges universally HATE unrepresented (I hate the terms self-represented and pro se) schmucks.
• seaman1921 5y ago
  yea, sure if your time is worth the price of 3 smart displays.
  • Stratoscope 5y ago
    I was being facetious when I mentioned small claims court. Of course my time is worth more than that! It was just a way of expressing my annoyance about the update.