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> I was a pretty staunch opponent of the iPad for a very long time. Tablets were clearly a consumption device I have no doubt that the iPad is great at the thi

> I was a pretty staunch opponent of the iPad for a very long time. Tablets were clearly a consumption device I have no doubt that the iPad is great at the things you list in your post, and I wish I had any skills that would justify buying an Apple Pencil. However, I don't understand why Apple and we on HN are so focused on making the iPad "more" than a consumption device. What's wrong with consumption? If I were to buy another iPad, it'd be for reading PDFs (terrible on e-book readers), for listening to podcasts and audiobooks, or to let my children play an educational game sometimes. But Apple keeps investing in productivity features while their Books app seems moribund at times (widget please?), their Podcasts app is an ongoing disaster, and they still don't have a read-only guest mode for children or friends. iPadOS has gotten so "pro" that buying an iPad for grandparents is not the no-brainer it used to be, either. For all the derision that iPads get for being couch potato devices, I wish they were better at being that.

arvinsim 5y ago
> For all the derision that iPads get for being couch potato devices, I wish they were better at being that The base and mini iPads are great for that.
thawaya3113 5y ago
> What's wrong with consumption? Human beings are more than vessels for SV douches to make billions they don’t need. Or in the case of Peter Thiel (hello HN), to make billions to use to go out of their way to make the world a more miserable place. Computers should empower people. They made them more than they were. The likes of the iPad go out of their way to take a device that someone, nearly everyone on this site, can learn from and grow from, and replace it with one that works hard to prevent you from exercising any brain cells. It says pleasure comes from being a potato, when the people who created it know that the pleasure in their lives can from being active creators.
- gurkendoktor 5y ago
  > Human beings are more than vessels for SV douches to make billions they don’t need. If I buy an iPad to read PDFs or books, many of which are free, I am hardly making SV douches more money than when I buy a "Pro" device for productivity. Ironically, the idea that people shouldn't read or listen (consume), and instead just build build build, also strikes me as a very Silicon Valley idea. I really don't know what it is about the iPad that makes it the target of this discussion. I have never heard anyone say the same things about e-book readers, or headphones that don't come with a mic for content creation.
  - thawaya3113 5y ago
    It’s about being more than …. A consumption device is nothing more than something designed to extract money out of a person. And no, being productive is not a SV idea. In fact, it’s only recently (in the past 50 or so years) that buying something that doesn’t have a productive purpose is even considered. But I’m not surprised that SV douches have convinced themselves that they’ve created the concept of being productive.
    - gurkendoktor 5y ago
      > It’s about being more than …. I would understand that objection if people could only own a single computing device. But us who want the iPad to be a dumb consumption device probably own a proper computer for creation. In fact, having an iPad that is supported by all the big companies (native apps, DRM, ...) makes it easier to use a main operating system that runs none of the SV junk. From my POV, it is really the opposite. People who want the iPad to be a universal computing device are the problem, because they'd be willing to move to a locked-down platform if only it had Xcode or whatever.
leviathant 5y ago
>However, I don't understand why Apple and we on HN are so focused on making the iPad "more" than a consumption device. What's wrong with consumption? A big part of what interested me about computers was the ability to get in there and do stuff with them. Whether that was from the perspective of software - cracking open a hex editor, or learning to write code, make music, edit photos, etc. etc., or from a hardware perspective. Having standard connections that allow for modular changes to my computer, whether that meant dropping in a Firewire card to take advantage of professional audio and video equipment, swapping in SSDs as they become more affordable, upgrading RAM, changing out power supplies, and so on - all accessible with a Phillips head screwdriver. Lately I've been thinking that it's actually had an influence on the houses I've bought and lived in. Nothing about the original iPad appealed to me. It was a big iPhone, and I already had an iPhone. Everything that I wanted to do on a bigger screen, I could already do on a bigger screen, whether that was my laptop, my desktop machine, or a television. A lot of my peers bought iPads, only to find them kind of... extra. Not great for watching videos, not as easy on the eyes as an e-ink Kindle, not great for listening to music - okay for browsing the web, until you hit Flash, which was still not uncommon at the time, especially for leisure activities like the kind of games that have become dominant on the iOS platform. For me, when the iPad came out, it was a solution looking for a problem. It wasn't for me. Now it is! What's funny is, now I almost feel like it's too easy to "create" - there is an unfathomable amount of video content being produced or remixed or stolen & reposted, every single second, to YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Reddit, you name it. There's amazing stuff coming out of that, for sure, but they're needles in an ever-growing haystack. Wild times.

arvinsim 5y ago

> For all the derision that iPads get for being couch potato devices, I wish they were better at being that The base and mini iPads are great for that.

thawaya3113 5y ago

> What's wrong with consumption? Human beings are more than vessels for SV douches to make billions they don’t need. Or in the case of Peter Thiel (hello HN), to make billions to use to go out of their way to make the world a more miserable place. Computers should empower people. They made them more than they were. The likes of the iPad go out of their way to take a device that someone, nearly everyone on this site, can learn from and grow from, and replace it with one that works hard to prevent you from exercising any brain cells. It says pleasure comes from being a potato, when the people who created it know that the pleasure in their lives can from being active creators.

gurkendoktor 5y ago
> Human beings are more than vessels for SV douches to make billions they don’t need. If I buy an iPad to read PDFs or books, many of which are free, I am hardly making SV douches more money than when I buy a "Pro" device for productivity. Ironically, the idea that people shouldn't read or listen (consume), and instead just build build build, also strikes me as a very Silicon Valley idea. I really don't know what it is about the iPad that makes it the target of this discussion. I have never heard anyone say the same things about e-book readers, or headphones that don't come with a mic for content creation.
- thawaya3113 5y ago
  It’s about being more than …. A consumption device is nothing more than something designed to extract money out of a person. And no, being productive is not a SV idea. In fact, it’s only recently (in the past 50 or so years) that buying something that doesn’t have a productive purpose is even considered. But I’m not surprised that SV douches have convinced themselves that they’ve created the concept of being productive.
  - gurkendoktor 5y ago
    > It’s about being more than …. I would understand that objection if people could only own a single computing device. But us who want the iPad to be a dumb consumption device probably own a proper computer for creation. In fact, having an iPad that is supported by all the big companies (native apps, DRM, ...) makes it easier to use a main operating system that runs none of the SV junk. From my POV, it is really the opposite. People who want the iPad to be a universal computing device are the problem, because they'd be willing to move to a locked-down platform if only it had Xcode or whatever.

leviathant 5y ago

>However, I don't understand why Apple and we on HN are so focused on making the iPad "more" than a consumption device. What's wrong with consumption? A big part of what interested me about computers was the ability to get in there and do stuff with them. Whether that was from the perspective of software - cracking open a hex editor, or learning to write code, make music, edit photos, etc. etc., or from a hardware perspective. Having standard connections that allow for modular changes to my computer, whether that meant dropping in a Firewire card to take advantage of professional audio and video equipment, swapping in SSDs as they become more affordable, upgrading RAM, changing out power supplies, and so on - all accessible with a Phillips head screwdriver. Lately I've been thinking that it's actually had an influence on the houses I've bought and lived in. Nothing about the original iPad appealed to me. It was a big iPhone, and I already had an iPhone. Everything that I wanted to do on a bigger screen, I could already do on a bigger screen, whether that was my laptop, my desktop machine, or a television. A lot of my peers bought iPads, only to find them kind of... extra. Not great for watching videos, not as easy on the eyes as an e-ink Kindle, not great for listening to music - okay for browsing the web, until you hit Flash, which was still not uncommon at the time, especially for leisure activities like the kind of games that have become dominant on the iOS platform. For me, when the iPad came out, it was a solution looking for a problem. It wasn't for me. Now it is! What's funny is, now I almost feel like it's too easy to "create" - there is an unfathomable amount of video content being produced or remixed or stolen & reposted, every single second, to YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Reddit, you name it. There's amazing stuff coming out of that, for sure, but they're needles in an ever-growing haystack. Wild times.