7 ms·

Let me state as a non-US citizen, which also watches some developments in the US with bewilderment, that other parts of the world also see the recent developmen

by riedel 5y ago

Let me state as a non-US citizen, which also watches some developments in the US with bewilderment, that other parts of the world also see the recent developments in China massively critical. This is no hysteria but a bad awakening after years of hope that the Chinese government shares at least some of our most fundamental values. Yes China is only focusing on itself (or what it has defined as itself), but this is actually the worrying part.

DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
I follow non-English media as well, and I have seen the same sort of crude propaganda becoming increasingly prevalent in the media of US-allied states. Many of the cultural and political trends that begin in the US have a way of spreading. This is particularly true of the China narrative, because the US has pushed for its allies to go along with a confrontational policy towards China. > a bad awakening I have not seen people becoming more informed about China. Much the opposite: I have seen the rapid spread of a bizarre image of China that has almost nothing to do with the reality on the ground.
- actuator 5y ago
  > have seen the rapid spread of a bizarre image of China that has almost nothing to do with the reality on the ground. Even the western propoganda will come with its own hyperbole. But some things are clear cut, like creating artificial islands and claiming rocks near other countries to claim maritime territory like in South China Sea. There are many more examples which are not helping CCP's case at this point. Criticism of what CCP is doing now is not criticism of Chinese people. Taiwan is a state which is majorly ethnically Han Chinese and it doesn't get the same criticism even though its past is also not all happy.
  - friedturkey 5y ago
    It’d be nice if people actually focused on the artificial island making or Taiwan’s independence, but “activists” (I’m not sure if that’s even the proper word in this instance) aren’t really concerned about that and most people don’t even know about the former. But an increasing number of people, especially Americans, really think the Chinese government/police really are just openly killing people in the streets with no consequence (lol), they’ve enslaved the entirety of Africa and stolen the land due to the debt of building a few trains, and other bizarre stuff. Any time anyone is like “I’ve been there and it’s not that bad,” people scream that you’re a shill and scream “WINNIE THE POOH” as if that does anything. The level is discourse involving the country is embarrassingly low, and when it reaches that level, it does just two things: breeds absolute hatred (hate crimes involving Asians are up) and pushes people not buying into it the the opposite direction of the propaganda.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      Where do you see these things?
      - friedturkey 5y ago
        Outside of HN, social media is absolutely flooded with it. Reddit is particularly awful. There's a set few countries where if you post anything not explicitly negative about them, people come out of the wood works to post a few set phrases.
        wolverine876 5y ago
        If you happen to have one, could you post a link?
        crusher_joe 5y ago
        peek at anything vaguely related to china on one of reddits default subs, it's awful (and has always been awful as long as I can remember). here's a submission on the frontpage right now https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/snzur1/getting_away_with_cheating_on_the_olympic_games/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/snzur..., particularly look at some completely benign comments getting buried with downvotes, you basically have to preface everything with "I hate the chinese government, but" or else you get called a chinese shill and downvoted. edit: like look at this https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/snzur1/getting_away_with_cheating_on_the_olympic_games/hw5yjd9/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/snzur..., this dude is literally copy and pasting this comment and getting 5000 upvotes and awards for it and all the responses are basically "i haven't watched any of this but all chinese are cheaters by blood so you're definitely right" and all the responses to those are "you will lose social credit" or "winnie the pooh" or talking about chinese shills despite every copy and pasted anti china post having positive votes, its so weird. it makes me mad that these huge internet communities that are and have always been racist against chinese people (i.e the brainwashed, cheaters, drones rhetoric that has existed since 2013 and almost certainly before) but now they use tragic humanitarian crises as cover to shut down all pushback. reddit discussion on the olympics is literally more racist than what gets posted on /sp/, and is far less self aware.
- vanusa 5y ago
  Would you say that widespread reports of mistreatment (and worse) of the Uyghur population are "bizarre imagery" with "almost nothing to do with the reality on the ground"?
- justin66 5y ago
  > I have seen the rapid spread of a bizarre image of China that has almost nothing to do with the reality on the ground. Are you denying that China has wrongfully imprisoned hundreds of thousands of Uyghurs and begun to deny Hong Kong the autonomy it is promised under the law? Just to pick two of the posters' subject matter. Perhaps you meant "bizarre image" in a purely aesthetic sense. It does not seem like condemnation of what's treated in the posters is even controversial outside China. It's certainly not unique to the US.
  - bigcat123 5y ago
    [dead]

by riedel 5y ago

DiogenesKynikos 5y ago

I follow non-English media as well, and I have seen the same sort of crude propaganda becoming increasingly prevalent in the media of US-allied states. Many of the cultural and political trends that begin in the US have a way of spreading. This is particularly true of the China narrative, because the US has pushed for its allies to go along with a confrontational policy towards China. > a bad awakening I have not seen people becoming more informed about China. Much the opposite: I have seen the rapid spread of a bizarre image of China that has almost nothing to do with the reality on the ground.

actuator 5y ago
> have seen the rapid spread of a bizarre image of China that has almost nothing to do with the reality on the ground. Even the western propoganda will come with its own hyperbole. But some things are clear cut, like creating artificial islands and claiming rocks near other countries to claim maritime territory like in South China Sea. There are many more examples which are not helping CCP's case at this point. Criticism of what CCP is doing now is not criticism of Chinese people. Taiwan is a state which is majorly ethnically Han Chinese and it doesn't get the same criticism even though its past is also not all happy.
- friedturkey 5y ago
  It’d be nice if people actually focused on the artificial island making or Taiwan’s independence, but “activists” (I’m not sure if that’s even the proper word in this instance) aren’t really concerned about that and most people don’t even know about the former. But an increasing number of people, especially Americans, really think the Chinese government/police really are just openly killing people in the streets with no consequence (lol), they’ve enslaved the entirety of Africa and stolen the land due to the debt of building a few trains, and other bizarre stuff. Any time anyone is like “I’ve been there and it’s not that bad,” people scream that you’re a shill and scream “WINNIE THE POOH” as if that does anything. The level is discourse involving the country is embarrassingly low, and when it reaches that level, it does just two things: breeds absolute hatred (hate crimes involving Asians are up) and pushes people not buying into it the the opposite direction of the propaganda.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    Where do you see these things?
    - friedturkey 5y ago
      Outside of HN, social media is absolutely flooded with it. Reddit is particularly awful. There's a set few countries where if you post anything not explicitly negative about them, people come out of the wood works to post a few set phrases.
      - wolverine876 5y ago
        If you happen to have one, could you post a link?
        crusher_joe 5y ago
        peek at anything vaguely related to china on one of reddits default subs, it's awful (and has always been awful as long as I can remember). here's a submission on the frontpage right now https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/snzur1/getting_away_with_cheating_on_the_olympic_games/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/snzur..., particularly look at some completely benign comments getting buried with downvotes, you basically have to preface everything with "I hate the chinese government, but" or else you get called a chinese shill and downvoted. edit: like look at this https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/snzur1/getting_away_with_cheating_on_the_olympic_games/hw5yjd9/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/snzur..., this dude is literally copy and pasting this comment and getting 5000 upvotes and awards for it and all the responses are basically "i haven't watched any of this but all chinese are cheaters by blood so you're definitely right" and all the responses to those are "you will lose social credit" or "winnie the pooh" or talking about chinese shills despite every copy and pasted anti china post having positive votes, its so weird. it makes me mad that these huge internet communities that are and have always been racist against chinese people (i.e the brainwashed, cheaters, drones rhetoric that has existed since 2013 and almost certainly before) but now they use tragic humanitarian crises as cover to shut down all pushback. reddit discussion on the olympics is literally more racist than what gets posted on /sp/, and is far less self aware.
vanusa 5y ago
Would you say that widespread reports of mistreatment (and worse) of the Uyghur population are "bizarre imagery" with "almost nothing to do with the reality on the ground"?
justin66 5y ago
> I have seen the rapid spread of a bizarre image of China that has almost nothing to do with the reality on the ground. Are you denying that China has wrongfully imprisoned hundreds of thousands of Uyghurs and begun to deny Hong Kong the autonomy it is promised under the law? Just to pick two of the posters' subject matter. Perhaps you meant "bizarre image" in a purely aesthetic sense. It does not seem like condemnation of what's treated in the posters is even controversial outside China. It's certainly not unique to the US.
- bigcat123 5y ago
  [dead]