4 ms·

Having seen the cartoons I don't think they're anything that a college student doesn't seen 10 times a week on the shows they're watching, I doubt anyone was se

Having seen the cartoons I don't think they're anything that a college student doesn't seen 10 times a week on the shows they're watching, I doubt anyone was seriously traumatized by them. Well, one thing you failed to mention that the CCP has done that the posters do highlight is the genocide being perpetrated on the Uyghur people which seems quite rational for people across the world to be outraged by and want to put pressure on the government to end such practices. Indeed China hasn't launched any kinetic wars, how about trade wars (e.g. WTO ruling against China RE Rare Earths which was used to badger the Japanese over a border dispute), how about intense economic pressure like what is happening with Lithuania right now, how about rampant forced technology transfer across the world. Let's try to have an evenhanded debate here in good faith. I'm happy to admit there are many things I think America has done and is doing wrong, no country is perfect, but it doesn't serve your cause to pretend that certain events have never happened or to gaslight people.

platinumrad 5y ago
It's pretty absurd to suggest that trade wars are even remotely equivalent to kinetic wars.
- atlasunshrugged 5y ago
  I was more responding to the claim that China has done nothing but focus internally. That said, I disagree and think that generally kinetic wars are over and that economic warfare can be quite serious too. China was able to lift hundreds of millions out of people out of poverty because of trade, one of the greatest achievements in our lifetimes to improve life. By that logic, the repression of economic achievement should also be of significant consequence if it drives people elsewhere into poverty.
  - platinumrad 5y ago
    Kinetic wars are over? I guess that event in Afghanistan was a 20 year picnic then?
    - atlasunshrugged 5y ago
      Look at what a boondoggle it was! Not to mention, how many people were actually paying attention for the last 10 years other than politicians, the poor soldiers that had to fight, the poor Afghanis stuck in the middle, and the defense companies. Look at how many people are paying attention now that the "excitement" of the withdrawal is over and how many people are sick of "forever wars." What western country has an appetite for any more kinetic conflicts? I think this is why Crimea was such a shock to people, because the seizing of territory just seemed so odd in this day and age. Plus, why put people's lives on the line in a war when you could hit their power grid with a cyberattack you can pin on a non-state actor since attribution is so hard or you can use the weight of your economic activity to force other countries to do what you want?
DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
> the genocide being perpetrated on the Uyghur people A "genocide" in which nobody is being killed. The fact that anyone is even using the word "genocide" regarding Xinjiang with a straight face is a perfect example of how extreme the propaganda in the US has become in the last 5 years. It's also a perfect example of US media not doing its job to hold the US government accountable when it makes absurd claims (à la WMD in Iraq).
- Freak_NL 5y ago
  You may wish to look up the definition of genocide. Genocide is about extinguishing an ethnic, racial, or religious group. One way is to simply murder everyone that belongs to it. It is effective, but hard to do without consequences. Another, perhaps more insidious way is to prevent that culture from propagating, thus destroying it in the long run. Tools you can use are involuntary birth control, displacement, and indoctrination. Which is what is happening in Xinjiang. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/09/uyghurs-subjected-to-genocide-by-china-unofficial-uk-tribunal-finds https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/09/uyghurs-subjec...
- muricula 5y ago
  The UN defines genocide as: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Killing members of a group is not necessary for something to be genocide. I realize the legal meaning of genocide is different than how some people generally use the word, but I don't think your objection holds up to scrutiny. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention#Definition_of_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention#Definition...
  - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago

platinumrad 5y ago

It's pretty absurd to suggest that trade wars are even remotely equivalent to kinetic wars.

atlasunshrugged 5y ago
I was more responding to the claim that China has done nothing but focus internally. That said, I disagree and think that generally kinetic wars are over and that economic warfare can be quite serious too. China was able to lift hundreds of millions out of people out of poverty because of trade, one of the greatest achievements in our lifetimes to improve life. By that logic, the repression of economic achievement should also be of significant consequence if it drives people elsewhere into poverty.
- platinumrad 5y ago
  Kinetic wars are over? I guess that event in Afghanistan was a 20 year picnic then?
  - atlasunshrugged 5y ago
    Look at what a boondoggle it was! Not to mention, how many people were actually paying attention for the last 10 years other than politicians, the poor soldiers that had to fight, the poor Afghanis stuck in the middle, and the defense companies. Look at how many people are paying attention now that the "excitement" of the withdrawal is over and how many people are sick of "forever wars." What western country has an appetite for any more kinetic conflicts? I think this is why Crimea was such a shock to people, because the seizing of territory just seemed so odd in this day and age. Plus, why put people's lives on the line in a war when you could hit their power grid with a cyberattack you can pin on a non-state actor since attribution is so hard or you can use the weight of your economic activity to force other countries to do what you want?

DiogenesKynikos 5y ago

> the genocide being perpetrated on the Uyghur people A "genocide" in which nobody is being killed. The fact that anyone is even using the word "genocide" regarding Xinjiang with a straight face is a perfect example of how extreme the propaganda in the US has become in the last 5 years. It's also a perfect example of US media not doing its job to hold the US government accountable when it makes absurd claims (à la WMD in Iraq).

Freak_NL 5y ago
You may wish to look up the definition of genocide. Genocide is about extinguishing an ethnic, racial, or religious group. One way is to simply murder everyone that belongs to it. It is effective, but hard to do without consequences. Another, perhaps more insidious way is to prevent that culture from propagating, thus destroying it in the long run. Tools you can use are involuntary birth control, displacement, and indoctrination. Which is what is happening in Xinjiang. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/09/uyghurs-subjected-to-genocide-by-china-unofficial-uk-tribunal-finds https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/09/uyghurs-subjec...
muricula 5y ago
The UN defines genocide as: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Killing members of a group is not necessary for something to be genocide. I realize the legal meaning of genocide is different than how some people generally use the word, but I don't think your objection holds up to scrutiny. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention#Definition_of_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention#Definition...
- DiogenesKynikos 5y ago