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He doesn’t even seem antivax… listening to the controversial podcasts… he just sounds more curious about it… asking questions and talking to people shouldn’t be

by taf2 5y ago

He doesn’t even seem antivax… listening to the controversial podcasts… he just sounds more curious about it… asking questions and talking to people shouldn’t be a bad thing…

anonporridge 5y ago
JAQing off (Just Asking Questions) is a common concern troll tactic. I also don't think he's necessarily antivax, but he's not innocent on this point.
- Karsteski 5y ago
  So then what are people supposed to do? Not question things? Or are we questioning this too much now..? I'm not entirely sure what to take away from your "common concern troll tactic"...
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    No. Of course you can question things. Just be completely open about your position and where you're coming from and not hide behind "I'm just asking questions bro".
    - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
      This very much seems like a way to dismis anyone you disagree with
    - golergka 5y ago
      If just asking questions can damage your position, why does the motivation of the person who asks those questions even matter? So what if he's a concern troll? That doesn't make the problems that these questions highlight any less valid.
      - Firmwarrior 5y ago
        yeah, I wish the answer to "concern trolling" were to link an FAQ that debunks all the common concern troll tactics, rather than to immediately and permanently ban that person from whatever "private space" they're currently using to communicate
Karsteski 5y ago
He's not against vaccines. From the episodes I have listened to, he is hesitant to take this new one, and questions why young healthy people are being forced to take it, and states (which I somewhat disagree with) that they shouldn't take it.
- okl 5y ago
  He's not an expert in the field and probably did not see any of the data. I think that he should not give medical advice like that to the general public.
  - Karsteski 5y ago
    Tbh, he's a self-professed moron and he commonly states that people should not take what he says seriously. If people want to go ahead and be stupid and take his word as gospel, then that's on them. I'll listen to whatever medical people he has on and take what they're saying into consideration, but idk why anyone would ever take Joe Rogan's medical advice... Although he is right that there should be more focus on holistic approaches to help instead of just "TAKE THIS FUCKING VACCINE OR ELSE", which is kind of what it has been here in Canada. Meanwhile a large percentage of Canadian (and obviously Americans) are overweight, eat like shit, and don't exercise at all. All things which significantly increase the chances that someone, even if they're young, will have adverse effects from the COVID virus.
okl 5y ago
I think that's his "thing", promoting his own viewpoints through selection of guests and asking them certain questions. I don't mind that though. What I mind is that he himself is (apparently) quite gullible. In his ig video he promised to "balance" opinions. So, what is the balance between facts and utter bullshit?
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  Of course a talk show host with free range on guests is going to take on guests he finds interesting and often the most interesting view points are the ones that contradict with the status quo. To me the quests seem to have some credentials and they have/had concerns over some aspects of how Covid is being treated, how the vacine is being administered, and how Covid restrictions are beign handled. They are interesting points and might be worth considering. I for one have been curious since the begining why Ivermectine was just banned fast with a smear campaign instead of doing actual trials and showing it doesn't work against Covid. None of this is antivax or utter bullshit in my mind
  - okl 5y ago
    > To me the quests seem to have some credentials Like Jordan Peterson rambling about climate change? > I for one have been curious since the begining why Ivermectine was just banned fast with a smear campaign instead of doing actual trials and showing it doesn't work against Covid. I you actually cared about that, then you'd know that trials were conducted and the data did not warrant a recommendation. For example, early results where discussed here in April 2020: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172803/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172803/ Sorry but, by insinuating a smear campaign you are now the one who's spreading bullshit.
    - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
      >Like Jordan Peterson rambling about climate change? Yeah, Peterson isn't authority on climate change, but does that mean he shouldn't say what he thinks about it? Also I was refering to the supposed antivax episodes. I haven't listened to the Peterson episode. As I said I haven't listened to JRE since it became Spotify exclusive expect for these two episodes. Sorry you need to help me with the link you provided. I tried skimming it and I just saw that ivermectine showed promise and that due to higher than usual dosage more research is needed. >Sorry but, by insinuating a smear campaign you are now the one who's spreading bullshit. Again what bullshit? If we have a drug that shows promise, but as soon as people start talking about it all news agencies start telling how the drug is "a horse dewormer" and implying that only idiots would even consider using "a horse dewormer" on humans when it is literally our best antiparasitic that has been used for decades on humans and animals. Obviously don't take any drugs that are made for animals, but I don't understand why potential treatment was dimissed so hard out of hand at a time when didn't have enough vaccines for everyone in need and we have bunch of Ivermectine in every pharmacy around the world.
_s 5y ago
It definitely isn’t! The problem is when individuals with dubious motivations and skills are given access to a platform that influences tens or hundreds of millions. The blessing and curse of having the worlds information at our fingertips is that we can usually find the data, groups and echo chambers to mirror any narrative. If you were hesitant about certain medical procedures, you now have access to groups and data that can and will reaffirm that you should not undergo that procedure because of X, Y & Z. Wether X, Y & Z are directly relevant, or even statistically probable - it doesn’t matter anymore. Group think, peer pressure, societal pressures and desires to be “free” and “independent” etc start to reign. The backlash against Spotify is warranted - it’s just a large corporation that people can condem and refuse to do business with. Same with governments. Perhaps not exactly the same analogy, but muslims won’t generally use the services offered by a Church, or some people might go see their Shaman over a GP, or vegans will avoid the meat-heavy BBQ place. We have our beliefs, some are misguided, some are dangerous. Covid is pretty dangerous, and deadly to certain demographics.

by taf2 5y ago

He doesn’t even seem antivax… listening to the controversial podcasts… he just sounds more curious about it… asking questions and talking to people shouldn’t be a bad thing…

anonporridge 5y ago

JAQing off (Just Asking Questions) is a common concern troll tactic. I also don't think he's necessarily antivax, but he's not innocent on this point.

Karsteski 5y ago
So then what are people supposed to do? Not question things? Or are we questioning this too much now..? I'm not entirely sure what to take away from your "common concern troll tactic"...
- anonporridge 5y ago
  No. Of course you can question things. Just be completely open about your position and where you're coming from and not hide behind "I'm just asking questions bro".
  - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
    This very much seems like a way to dismis anyone you disagree with
  - golergka 5y ago
    If just asking questions can damage your position, why does the motivation of the person who asks those questions even matter? So what if he's a concern troll? That doesn't make the problems that these questions highlight any less valid.
    - Firmwarrior 5y ago
      yeah, I wish the answer to "concern trolling" were to link an FAQ that debunks all the common concern troll tactics, rather than to immediately and permanently ban that person from whatever "private space" they're currently using to communicate

Karsteski 5y ago

He's not against vaccines. From the episodes I have listened to, he is hesitant to take this new one, and questions why young healthy people are being forced to take it, and states (which I somewhat disagree with) that they shouldn't take it.

okl 5y ago
He's not an expert in the field and probably did not see any of the data. I think that he should not give medical advice like that to the general public.
- Karsteski 5y ago
  Tbh, he's a self-professed moron and he commonly states that people should not take what he says seriously. If people want to go ahead and be stupid and take his word as gospel, then that's on them. I'll listen to whatever medical people he has on and take what they're saying into consideration, but idk why anyone would ever take Joe Rogan's medical advice... Although he is right that there should be more focus on holistic approaches to help instead of just "TAKE THIS FUCKING VACCINE OR ELSE", which is kind of what it has been here in Canada. Meanwhile a large percentage of Canadian (and obviously Americans) are overweight, eat like shit, and don't exercise at all. All things which significantly increase the chances that someone, even if they're young, will have adverse effects from the COVID virus.

okl 5y ago

I think that's his "thing", promoting his own viewpoints through selection of guests and asking them certain questions. I don't mind that though. What I mind is that he himself is (apparently) quite gullible. In his ig video he promised to "balance" opinions. So, what is the balance between facts and utter bullshit?

nextlevelwizard 5y ago
Of course a talk show host with free range on guests is going to take on guests he finds interesting and often the most interesting view points are the ones that contradict with the status quo. To me the quests seem to have some credentials and they have/had concerns over some aspects of how Covid is being treated, how the vacine is being administered, and how Covid restrictions are beign handled. They are interesting points and might be worth considering. I for one have been curious since the begining why Ivermectine was just banned fast with a smear campaign instead of doing actual trials and showing it doesn't work against Covid. None of this is antivax or utter bullshit in my mind
- okl 5y ago
  > To me the quests seem to have some credentials Like Jordan Peterson rambling about climate change? > I for one have been curious since the begining why Ivermectine was just banned fast with a smear campaign instead of doing actual trials and showing it doesn't work against Covid. I you actually cared about that, then you'd know that trials were conducted and the data did not warrant a recommendation. For example, early results where discussed here in April 2020: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172803/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172803/ Sorry but, by insinuating a smear campaign you are now the one who's spreading bullshit.
  - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
    >Like Jordan Peterson rambling about climate change? Yeah, Peterson isn't authority on climate change, but does that mean he shouldn't say what he thinks about it? Also I was refering to the supposed antivax episodes. I haven't listened to the Peterson episode. As I said I haven't listened to JRE since it became Spotify exclusive expect for these two episodes. Sorry you need to help me with the link you provided. I tried skimming it and I just saw that ivermectine showed promise and that due to higher than usual dosage more research is needed. >Sorry but, by insinuating a smear campaign you are now the one who's spreading bullshit. Again what bullshit? If we have a drug that shows promise, but as soon as people start talking about it all news agencies start telling how the drug is "a horse dewormer" and implying that only idiots would even consider using "a horse dewormer" on humans when it is literally our best antiparasitic that has been used for decades on humans and animals. Obviously don't take any drugs that are made for animals, but I don't understand why potential treatment was dimissed so hard out of hand at a time when didn't have enough vaccines for everyone in need and we have bunch of Ivermectine in every pharmacy around the world.

_s 5y ago

It definitely isn’t! The problem is when individuals with dubious motivations and skills are given access to a platform that influences tens or hundreds of millions. The blessing and curse of having the worlds information at our fingertips is that we can usually find the data, groups and echo chambers to mirror any narrative. If you were hesitant about certain medical procedures, you now have access to groups and data that can and will reaffirm that you should not undergo that procedure because of X, Y & Z. Wether X, Y & Z are directly relevant, or even statistically probable - it doesn’t matter anymore. Group think, peer pressure, societal pressures and desires to be “free” and “independent” etc start to reign. The backlash against Spotify is warranted - it’s just a large corporation that people can condem and refuse to do business with. Same with governments. Perhaps not exactly the same analogy, but muslims won’t generally use the services offered by a Church, or some people might go see their Shaman over a GP, or vegans will avoid the meat-heavy BBQ place. We have our beliefs, some are misguided, some are dangerous. Covid is pretty dangerous, and deadly to certain demographics.