5 ms·

I watched the entire N word video. All his did was use it while quoting someone else or talking about the word himself. Crass, sure but hardly racist or transg

I watched the entire N word video. All his did was use it while quoting someone else or talking about the word himself. Crass, sure but hardly racist or transgressive against anyone. It would be highly offensive if he called someone that but thats not what happened here. And for the record, I'm very against his antivax stance, I just don't think he should be cencoered for it and he's certainly not a white supremecist

roughly 5y ago
> All his did was use it while quoting someone else or talking about the word himself. Crass, sure but hardly racist or transgressive against anyone. An awful lot of people disagree with you very strongly on that point.
- cultofmetatron 5y ago
  those people need to get out of their bubble and realize there's a difference between a word and the intention.
  - roughly 5y ago
    I suspect that those people would argue with you that racial issues in this country are hardly a settled matter or history, that even unintentional acts can have consequences, and that a sort of willful blindness to both of those facts helps perpetuate, not solve, issues of racial disparity and injustice in this country.
    - Firmwarrior 5y ago
      Where does it stop, though? At this rate, another 20 years down the line someone is going to be digging up our social media posts and canceling us for saying "the N word" directly instead of more indirectly saying "vicious racial epithets"
      - roughly 5y ago
        I mean, further down the road than here. In addition to casually dropping the N-word, Rogan said some stuff that would've been considered Racist even in the way-back times of 2010 when he said them.
  - cultofmetatron 5y ago
    > I suspect that those people would argue with you that racial issues in this country are hardly a settled matter or history, I agree but as brown person who is a first generation immigrant and dealt with racism myself, Banning the utterance of a word used in a fairly clinical context draws attention away from actual systematic racism that exists today. I hate to quote right wingers but this is very much virtue signaling and its dangerous for all te precedents it sets without doing anything that would actually benefit marginalized people.
    - roughly 5y ago
      Agree, but I think it's an And, not an Or. I can't imagine a world in which we've dealt with actual systemic racism in which casual use of the N-word is just sort of fine.
- Karsteski 5y ago
  I'm black, but not American. I find the idea that people can't even say a word in quotations or reference to be inane. Although I understand and respect why American black people don't like it. What bothers me is that people can lose their jobs/livelihoods just from saying it.
  - roughly 5y ago
    There's an interesting kind of inside-out thinking re: jobs in these kinds of matters - I thought it was on display in a pretty sharp way during the Kavanaugh hearings - Brett Kavanaugh was being vetted as a supreme court justice, one of 9 people in a lifetime appointment as some of the most influential individuals in the US government and consequently the world. By all measures, Kavanaugh did some dumb shit as a young adult - he displayed a sharp lack of judgement. Does that make him a bad person? Maybe, maybe not. It does, however, suggest that maybe he's not one of the 9 most qualified individuals in a country of 350M to serve a lifetime appointment exercising his judgement in arguably the most consequential institution in the country. Is Joe Rogan a bad guy? Who knows. Sounds like he was an idiot a decade or so ago, but maybe he's better now. Is he entitled in any vast cosmic sense to a platform with millions of listeners and an actual effect on politics and the real world? No, not really. He's got one, sure, but it's not like we as a society are in any way obligated to either agree that that should continue or not take steps to see it stopped if we feel it's doing harm. Should Joe Rogan be shot or thrown in jail? Absolutely not. Does he have an inalienable right to a mass influence on society? Also absolutely not. This sort of notion that we as society don't have some vested interest in the construction of the world we live in that doesn't trump some random person's ability to earn an obscene amount of money is just strange. Joe Rogan isn't going to be poor if he loses his show and he's not going without a meal if Spotify decides he can't say the N-word in a podcast.
    - Karsteski 5y ago
      Idk from listening to other people who know him personally, and from listening to 100s of episodes of his podcast, he seems like a great person. Says a lot of stupid shit and has fuck ups, but who doesn't. I don't really think that anyone does or doesn't deserve to have an audience. Also I find the idea that someone "should not have a platform" whatever the fuck that means, because they say stupid shit, to be a very short-sighted approach to the problem of people believing stupid things. If I were a person who was vaccine-hesitant or straight up didn't want the COVID vaccine for whatever reason, all this talk would just make further entrenched in my beliefs. Which is clearly what is happening. I also am also very much against calling for people's jobs/livelihoods what have you. Regardless of if I agree/disagree with their positions. I do wish Rogan would have just stayed independent, especially because I listen to far fewer of his podcasts because Spotify is a shit platform. But honestly, who would turn down a multihundred million dollar deal. So whatever, I don't blame him. But clearly he is seeing the repercussions of that.
- elzbardico 5y ago
  I am black, and other than white people and professional activists that have a clear interest on this narrative, me and most of my friends are totally ok with uttering the word to discuss it if you are not using it as a slur against someone/someones.
  - Karsteski 5y ago
    In my experience, it seems to be mainly an American thing... Maybe because I'm Trinidadian and I've grown up hearing a bunch of different races say it I just think it's silly to care..? I find idea of forbidden words to be so silly. Just gives them far more power if anything.
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  What even is your point?
taf2 5y ago
He doesn’t even seem antivax… listening to the controversial podcasts… he just sounds more curious about it… asking questions and talking to people shouldn’t be a bad thing…
- anonporridge 5y ago
  JAQing off (Just Asking Questions) is a common concern troll tactic. I also don't think he's necessarily antivax, but he's not innocent on this point.
  - Karsteski 5y ago
    So then what are people supposed to do? Not question things? Or are we questioning this too much now..? I'm not entirely sure what to take away from your "common concern troll tactic"...
    - anonporridge 5y ago
      No. Of course you can question things. Just be completely open about your position and where you're coming from and not hide behind "I'm just asking questions bro".
      - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
        This very much seems like a way to dismis anyone you disagree with
      - golergka 5y ago
        If just asking questions can damage your position, why does the motivation of the person who asks those questions even matter? So what if he's a concern troll? That doesn't make the problems that these questions highlight any less valid.
        Firmwarrior 5y ago
        yeah, I wish the answer to "concern trolling" were to link an FAQ that debunks all the common concern troll tactics, rather than to immediately and permanently ban that person from whatever "private space" they're currently using to communicate
typon 5y ago
There are a lot of instances of it, not just that particular video. "Planet of the apes" is probably more racist than even saying the "n-word"
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
option 5y ago
Of course he isn’t racist. Also smart people learn from their mistakes and he did apologize. This is blatant canceling attempt and they are being unsuccessful and this is why so desperate.
throw_m239339 5y ago
For the internet mob today context doesn't matter. Only the size of the mob. I think it went too far when people started to link to Spotify's CEO's physical address on Twitter, it was almost like "Well here is the address, it would be a shame if something happened...". And any "celebrity" involved in all this, if they think they aren't next on the list, they're deluded...
anonporridge 5y ago
The taboo of making particular mouth noises in reference to the noise and it's meaning is bullshit. The forbidden fruit effect only gives these sounds more power than they deserve.
ukie 5y ago
sedatk 5y ago
Just to clarify: He isn't one of the regular podcasters. He is Spotify's poster boy with a $100M exclusive deal. It's perfectly reasonable for people not to want to fund his stance. This isn't asking for censorship. The moment you start making exclusive deals with your content creators, you're not a platform anymore. You're media with explicit political stance now. You bear the consequences.
BitwiseFool 5y ago
My rule of thumb is that if you hear more about "the controversy" rather than the actual details of said controversy, it's not as bad as you think. I suppose it's related to Betteridge's law of headlines, mainly because if you really wanted to get people riled up about what someone said or did, you'd simply show it. Granted, something really obscene can still be quoted by replacing offending words with ***?
pcan77 5y ago
i think the bigger issue here is the instance where he has a half white half black guest on saying he "has a black body and white brain, so best of both worlds!" It's really gross and appalling that someone would even jokingly say something about that.
Dig1t 5y ago
I totally agree, it seems that intent means absolutely nothing when using words. Talking about a word is exactly the same as using it against someone in a derogatory way. This same thing happened to the Papa Johns pizza guy. He was talking about how we've made a lot of progress when it comes to racist speech and when talking about it, used the n-word to talk about the n-word, and was canceled as a result. Honestly I don't get it, I'd love if someone would spell that out for me why someone using the word with extremely obvious lack of malicious intent is vehemently shouted down with the same intensity that actual white supremacists receive.
- elzbardico 5y ago
  This is a form of animism. The strange belief that some words have magical powers. Superstition.
- jl6 5y ago
  The same intensity? No, more intensity. Actual white supremacists don’t pose any threat to the prevailing system of thought, so mostly get ignored as marginal wackos. On the other hand, mainstream people who dissent, even in a minor way, pose a serious threat. They challenge orthodoxy in a way that crazy racists don’t. The real danger? People might start listening to them! That’s why they get shut down harder. It’s about silencing credible dissent. Actual harm prevention is a distant secondary concern.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  To be fair, that word is rather unique in being a hateful slur which is also inherently bound to the utter dehumanization of a large group of people. If you take the 'use-mention distinction' seriously, this doesn't mean you can't mention the word as part of talking about something else altogether, with zero intention to dehumanize blacks. But many people subscribe to a kind of magical thinking where "bad" words are imbued with some kind of mana or occult power. To that sort of mindset, you of course would never ever dare to say the word out loud unless you were fully intending to bring us all back to that dismal time of oppression. It's not an overtly stated narrative and doesn't have to make rational sense, only be emotionally appealing. But it's quite self-consistent in its own terms, and it's ultimately what justifies this kind of outrage.
Dma54rhs 5y ago
American puritanism strikes again, just the old bible values have replaced with something more modern and hip.
- Dig1t 5y ago
  So true, it seems that woke values wrapped around the political spectrum and are aligning with the complete opposite end.
  - redisman 5y ago
    What’s gonna be the South Park of 2022? Or I guess that show is still on too lol
zelag 5y ago
What do you think about this one? https://www.reddit.com/r/thefighterandthekid/comments/sle98y/how_is_toe_going_to_apologize_for_this_one/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thefighterandthekid/comments/sle98y...
- cultofmetatron 5y ago
  mind of a white person, yea pretty dumb. one quote out of context. It was from 10 years ago and he's clearly grown a lot from that. everyone says stupid shit once in awhile. AS someone who's also in an interracial relationship, I applaud his support and hope my own children benefit from genetic diversity.
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    Please explain the context.

roughly 5y ago

> All his did was use it while quoting someone else or talking about the word himself. Crass, sure but hardly racist or transgressive against anyone. An awful lot of people disagree with you very strongly on that point.

cultofmetatron 5y ago
those people need to get out of their bubble and realize there's a difference between a word and the intention.
- roughly 5y ago
  I suspect that those people would argue with you that racial issues in this country are hardly a settled matter or history, that even unintentional acts can have consequences, and that a sort of willful blindness to both of those facts helps perpetuate, not solve, issues of racial disparity and injustice in this country.
  - Firmwarrior 5y ago
    Where does it stop, though? At this rate, another 20 years down the line someone is going to be digging up our social media posts and canceling us for saying "the N word" directly instead of more indirectly saying "vicious racial epithets"
    - roughly 5y ago
      I mean, further down the road than here. In addition to casually dropping the N-word, Rogan said some stuff that would've been considered Racist even in the way-back times of 2010 when he said them.
- cultofmetatron 5y ago
  > I suspect that those people would argue with you that racial issues in this country are hardly a settled matter or history, I agree but as brown person who is a first generation immigrant and dealt with racism myself, Banning the utterance of a word used in a fairly clinical context draws attention away from actual systematic racism that exists today. I hate to quote right wingers but this is very much virtue signaling and its dangerous for all te precedents it sets without doing anything that would actually benefit marginalized people.
  - roughly 5y ago
    Agree, but I think it's an And, not an Or. I can't imagine a world in which we've dealt with actual systemic racism in which casual use of the N-word is just sort of fine.
Karsteski 5y ago
I'm black, but not American. I find the idea that people can't even say a word in quotations or reference to be inane. Although I understand and respect why American black people don't like it. What bothers me is that people can lose their jobs/livelihoods just from saying it.
- roughly 5y ago
  There's an interesting kind of inside-out thinking re: jobs in these kinds of matters - I thought it was on display in a pretty sharp way during the Kavanaugh hearings - Brett Kavanaugh was being vetted as a supreme court justice, one of 9 people in a lifetime appointment as some of the most influential individuals in the US government and consequently the world. By all measures, Kavanaugh did some dumb shit as a young adult - he displayed a sharp lack of judgement. Does that make him a bad person? Maybe, maybe not. It does, however, suggest that maybe he's not one of the 9 most qualified individuals in a country of 350M to serve a lifetime appointment exercising his judgement in arguably the most consequential institution in the country. Is Joe Rogan a bad guy? Who knows. Sounds like he was an idiot a decade or so ago, but maybe he's better now. Is he entitled in any vast cosmic sense to a platform with millions of listeners and an actual effect on politics and the real world? No, not really. He's got one, sure, but it's not like we as a society are in any way obligated to either agree that that should continue or not take steps to see it stopped if we feel it's doing harm. Should Joe Rogan be shot or thrown in jail? Absolutely not. Does he have an inalienable right to a mass influence on society? Also absolutely not. This sort of notion that we as society don't have some vested interest in the construction of the world we live in that doesn't trump some random person's ability to earn an obscene amount of money is just strange. Joe Rogan isn't going to be poor if he loses his show and he's not going without a meal if Spotify decides he can't say the N-word in a podcast.
  - Karsteski 5y ago
    Idk from listening to other people who know him personally, and from listening to 100s of episodes of his podcast, he seems like a great person. Says a lot of stupid shit and has fuck ups, but who doesn't. I don't really think that anyone does or doesn't deserve to have an audience. Also I find the idea that someone "should not have a platform" whatever the fuck that means, because they say stupid shit, to be a very short-sighted approach to the problem of people believing stupid things. If I were a person who was vaccine-hesitant or straight up didn't want the COVID vaccine for whatever reason, all this talk would just make further entrenched in my beliefs. Which is clearly what is happening. I also am also very much against calling for people's jobs/livelihoods what have you. Regardless of if I agree/disagree with their positions. I do wish Rogan would have just stayed independent, especially because I listen to far fewer of his podcasts because Spotify is a shit platform. But honestly, who would turn down a multihundred million dollar deal. So whatever, I don't blame him. But clearly he is seeing the repercussions of that.
elzbardico 5y ago
I am black, and other than white people and professional activists that have a clear interest on this narrative, me and most of my friends are totally ok with uttering the word to discuss it if you are not using it as a slur against someone/someones.
- Karsteski 5y ago
  In my experience, it seems to be mainly an American thing... Maybe because I'm Trinidadian and I've grown up hearing a bunch of different races say it I just think it's silly to care..? I find idea of forbidden words to be so silly. Just gives them far more power if anything.
nextlevelwizard 5y ago
What even is your point?

taf2 5y ago

He doesn’t even seem antivax… listening to the controversial podcasts… he just sounds more curious about it… asking questions and talking to people shouldn’t be a bad thing…

anonporridge 5y ago
JAQing off (Just Asking Questions) is a common concern troll tactic. I also don't think he's necessarily antivax, but he's not innocent on this point.
- Karsteski 5y ago
  So then what are people supposed to do? Not question things? Or are we questioning this too much now..? I'm not entirely sure what to take away from your "common concern troll tactic"...
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    No. Of course you can question things. Just be completely open about your position and where you're coming from and not hide behind "I'm just asking questions bro".
    - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
      This very much seems like a way to dismis anyone you disagree with
    - golergka 5y ago
      If just asking questions can damage your position, why does the motivation of the person who asks those questions even matter? So what if he's a concern troll? That doesn't make the problems that these questions highlight any less valid.
      - Firmwarrior 5y ago
        yeah, I wish the answer to "concern trolling" were to link an FAQ that debunks all the common concern troll tactics, rather than to immediately and permanently ban that person from whatever "private space" they're currently using to communicate

typon 5y ago

There are a lot of instances of it, not just that particular video. "Planet of the apes" is probably more racist than even saying the "n-word"

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

option 5y ago

Of course he isn’t racist. Also smart people learn from their mistakes and he did apologize. This is blatant canceling attempt and they are being unsuccessful and this is why so desperate.

throw_m239339 5y ago

For the internet mob today context doesn't matter. Only the size of the mob. I think it went too far when people started to link to Spotify's CEO's physical address on Twitter, it was almost like "Well here is the address, it would be a shame if something happened...". And any "celebrity" involved in all this, if they think they aren't next on the list, they're deluded...

anonporridge 5y ago

The taboo of making particular mouth noises in reference to the noise and it's meaning is bullshit. The forbidden fruit effect only gives these sounds more power than they deserve.

ukie 5y ago

sedatk 5y ago

Just to clarify: He isn't one of the regular podcasters. He is Spotify's poster boy with a $100M exclusive deal. It's perfectly reasonable for people not to want to fund his stance. This isn't asking for censorship. The moment you start making exclusive deals with your content creators, you're not a platform anymore. You're media with explicit political stance now. You bear the consequences.

BitwiseFool 5y ago

My rule of thumb is that if you hear more about "the controversy" rather than the actual details of said controversy, it's not as bad as you think. I suppose it's related to Betteridge's law of headlines, mainly because if you really wanted to get people riled up about what someone said or did, you'd simply show it. Granted, something really obscene can still be quoted by replacing offending words with ***?

pcan77 5y ago

i think the bigger issue here is the instance where he has a half white half black guest on saying he "has a black body and white brain, so best of both worlds!" It's really gross and appalling that someone would even jokingly say something about that.

Dig1t 5y ago

I totally agree, it seems that intent means absolutely nothing when using words. Talking about a word is exactly the same as using it against someone in a derogatory way. This same thing happened to the Papa Johns pizza guy. He was talking about how we've made a lot of progress when it comes to racist speech and when talking about it, used the n-word to talk about the n-word, and was canceled as a result. Honestly I don't get it, I'd love if someone would spell that out for me why someone using the word with extremely obvious lack of malicious intent is vehemently shouted down with the same intensity that actual white supremacists receive.

elzbardico 5y ago
This is a form of animism. The strange belief that some words have magical powers. Superstition.
jl6 5y ago
The same intensity? No, more intensity. Actual white supremacists don’t pose any threat to the prevailing system of thought, so mostly get ignored as marginal wackos. On the other hand, mainstream people who dissent, even in a minor way, pose a serious threat. They challenge orthodoxy in a way that crazy racists don’t. The real danger? People might start listening to them! That’s why they get shut down harder. It’s about silencing credible dissent. Actual harm prevention is a distant secondary concern.
zozbot234 5y ago
To be fair, that word is rather unique in being a hateful slur which is also inherently bound to the utter dehumanization of a large group of people. If you take the 'use-mention distinction' seriously, this doesn't mean you can't mention the word as part of talking about something else altogether, with zero intention to dehumanize blacks. But many people subscribe to a kind of magical thinking where "bad" words are imbued with some kind of mana or occult power. To that sort of mindset, you of course would never ever dare to say the word out loud unless you were fully intending to bring us all back to that dismal time of oppression. It's not an overtly stated narrative and doesn't have to make rational sense, only be emotionally appealing. But it's quite self-consistent in its own terms, and it's ultimately what justifies this kind of outrage.

Dma54rhs 5y ago

American puritanism strikes again, just the old bible values have replaced with something more modern and hip.

Dig1t 5y ago
So true, it seems that woke values wrapped around the political spectrum and are aligning with the complete opposite end.
- redisman 5y ago
  What’s gonna be the South Park of 2022? Or I guess that show is still on too lol

zelag 5y ago

What do you think about this one? https://www.reddit.com/r/thefighterandthekid/comments/sle98y/how_is_toe_going_to_apologize_for_this_one/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thefighterandthekid/comments/sle98y...

cultofmetatron 5y ago
mind of a white person, yea pretty dumb. one quote out of context. It was from 10 years ago and he's clearly grown a lot from that. everyone says stupid shit once in awhile. AS someone who's also in an interracial relationship, I applaud his support and hope my own children benefit from genetic diversity.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  Please explain the context.