4 ms·

Glad that they reversed this. The Chinese people are not the Chinese government and all governments should be open to scrutiny in a free society.

by asow92 5y ago

netsharc 5y ago
Can't blame the CCP for trying, the same argument of racism has worked really well against any criticism of the Israeli state... (I say with a heavy dose of cynicism)
- riedel 5y ago
  I think both are truly believing that criticism is racially motivated. Unfortunately, history actually tells us in both cases they kind of have a point. I think we have to accept the fundamental critism of our criticism until we have actually proven we aren't racist.
  - asow92 5y ago
    So we might be racist for calling out genocide and ethnic cleansing?
    - platinumrad 5y ago
      Yes, I think it's pretty racist to depict a random chinese athlete throwing a virus at the viewer.
      - asow92 5y ago
        That's not what I asked.
        platinumrad 5y ago
        The manner in which you call something out matters. If I make a poster calling out terrorism and depict an arab athlete throwing a bomb at the viewer then I think it would be pretty counterproductive and, yes, racist.
        asow92 5y ago
        Hey, the virus did originate in Wuhan China and was covered up initially by the CCP. That's just a fact. Nothing racist about it. Also, we didn't make these posters, but that shouldn't detract from the actual genocide that's occurring today.
        platinumrad 5y ago
        Hey, the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and were given a long leash by the Saudi government. That's just a fact. Nothing racist about it. Also, I didn't make the racist poster so I think it's totally appropriate to leave it up. (Not sure where you were going with this part...)
        asow92 5y ago
        I don't even understand what your point is anymore. This poster is calling out the CCP and its policies; not people of the Chinese race. If you can't see that then I'm not sure what to tell you. There is nothing racist about what you said in what you somehow think is a counter point. The CCP are engaged in human rights abuses and some of us think that we have a moral obligation to call that out. What is your game here?
    - riedel 5y ago
      One can be called racist and still be right. I don't say we should stop calling out those things. But we maybe cannot demand that other people still call us racists over it. If criticism will have postive effects this way is a whole different story.
  - aksss 5y ago
    This is the heckler's veto, and entirely unsustainable. Someone will always be there to argue your criticism is invalid because the soil you're standing on is soaked in blood, racism, whatever. It would paralyze you to accept any criticism at the cost of having no voice (because you can never prove you aren't the embodiment of said criticism - your standard). We lack a neutral and omniscient arbiter to make the decision that you are or aren't, on balance and otherwise, a bastard or a descendent of bastards. It's still important to be a critic of the/a state. The fact that most nations on the planet are strongly associated with an ethnicity makes the field a little more tricky, but not that much. Part of success here is convincing a vocal segment of liberal society to focus on actual content of criticism and stop second-guessing/worrying about what other dumber elements of society might think if criticism were viewed the wrong way. That's such a tenuous conditional lever to pull on to justify censorship. If you're even mildly "in" the Asian community in the US, you know that "Asian Hate" is sadly not a new phenomenon, just one that has received more attention and reporting lately (and arguably quickly set aside once current events failed to substantiate a white supremist angle that could be milked); it's been a tragic staple of the Asian experience for a long, long time. There are many valid reasons for the Chinese to dismiss criticism (starting with "mind your own business as we develop" to moral equivalency arguments to reparations arguments - I've heard many of them). We also don't have to treat that dismissal as a valid reason to ignore inhumanity. It may even be acceptable to acknowledge grey areas and nuance, but even that doesn't close the door to good faith criticism about castration, sex-trafficking, enabling DPRK, destabilizing territorial grabs, etc.

Glad that they reversed this. The Chinese people are not the Chinese government and all governments should be open to scrutiny in a free society.

by asow92 5y ago

Glad that they reversed this. The Chinese people are not the Chinese government and all governments should be open to scrutiny in a free society.

netsharc 5y ago

Can't blame the CCP for trying, the same argument of racism has worked really well against any criticism of the Israeli state... (I say with a heavy dose of cynicism)

riedel 5y ago
I think both are truly believing that criticism is racially motivated. Unfortunately, history actually tells us in both cases they kind of have a point. I think we have to accept the fundamental critism of our criticism until we have actually proven we aren't racist.
- asow92 5y ago
  So we might be racist for calling out genocide and ethnic cleansing?
  - platinumrad 5y ago
    Yes, I think it's pretty racist to depict a random chinese athlete throwing a virus at the viewer.
    - asow92 5y ago
      That's not what I asked.
      - platinumrad 5y ago
        The manner in which you call something out matters. If I make a poster calling out terrorism and depict an arab athlete throwing a bomb at the viewer then I think it would be pretty counterproductive and, yes, racist.
        asow92 5y ago
        Hey, the virus did originate in Wuhan China and was covered up initially by the CCP. That's just a fact. Nothing racist about it. Also, we didn't make these posters, but that shouldn't detract from the actual genocide that's occurring today.
        platinumrad 5y ago
        Hey, the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and were given a long leash by the Saudi government. That's just a fact. Nothing racist about it. Also, I didn't make the racist poster so I think it's totally appropriate to leave it up. (Not sure where you were going with this part...)
        asow92 5y ago
        I don't even understand what your point is anymore. This poster is calling out the CCP and its policies; not people of the Chinese race. If you can't see that then I'm not sure what to tell you. There is nothing racist about what you said in what you somehow think is a counter point. The CCP are engaged in human rights abuses and some of us think that we have a moral obligation to call that out. What is your game here?
  - riedel 5y ago
    One can be called racist and still be right. I don't say we should stop calling out those things. But we maybe cannot demand that other people still call us racists over it. If criticism will have postive effects this way is a whole different story.
- aksss 5y ago
  This is the heckler's veto, and entirely unsustainable. Someone will always be there to argue your criticism is invalid because the soil you're standing on is soaked in blood, racism, whatever. It would paralyze you to accept any criticism at the cost of having no voice (because you can never prove you aren't the embodiment of said criticism - your standard). We lack a neutral and omniscient arbiter to make the decision that you are or aren't, on balance and otherwise, a bastard or a descendent of bastards. It's still important to be a critic of the/a state. The fact that most nations on the planet are strongly associated with an ethnicity makes the field a little more tricky, but not that much. Part of success here is convincing a vocal segment of liberal society to focus on actual content of criticism and stop second-guessing/worrying about what other dumber elements of society might think if criticism were viewed the wrong way. That's such a tenuous conditional lever to pull on to justify censorship. If you're even mildly "in" the Asian community in the US, you know that "Asian Hate" is sadly not a new phenomenon, just one that has received more attention and reporting lately (and arguably quickly set aside once current events failed to substantiate a white supremist angle that could be milked); it's been a tragic staple of the Asian experience for a long, long time. There are many valid reasons for the Chinese to dismiss criticism (starting with "mind your own business as we develop" to moral equivalency arguments to reparations arguments - I've heard many of them). We also don't have to treat that dismissal as a valid reason to ignore inhumanity. It may even be acceptable to acknowledge grey areas and nuance, but even that doesn't close the door to good faith criticism about castration, sex-trafficking, enabling DPRK, destabilizing territorial grabs, etc.