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Will Amazon at any point start considering hiring more engineers from countries that command lesser salaries like Brazil/EU than they do US engineers? Why do U

Will Amazon at any point start considering hiring more engineers from countries that command lesser salaries like Brazil/EU than they do US engineers? Why do US engineers command such higher salaries?

rybosworld 5y ago
European labor laws are a major factor. It's much harder to fire people and a company like Amazon loves to fire people. I imagine Brazil doesn't have enough of a talent pool to draw from.
- mihaigalos 5y ago
  > European labor laws are a major factor. It's much harder to fire people and a company like Amazon loves to fire people. Not sure why I keep reading this over and over. Yes, it can take up to 6 months to fire somebody here in Europe (usually 1-3 months though). The 6 months is usually for >15 years of uninterrupted work with the same company. Justifying that "the company cannot easily fire because of labor laws" is just plain wrong. If the 250k+$ jobs I'm constantly reading about are actually true, it's double the average that I've ever heard about for any type of Senior SW Devs in most competitive / innovative centers in the EU. 350k$ more so. Stocks are not even part of the TC. In most EU countries, SW Devs make about 50-60k€ as juniors. To reiterate, the math doesn't add up, so the argument must be talent, not laws.
  - ehaughee 5y ago
    Speaking only for my own org's stated goals, they try to hire within the same timezone or close-by. So South America, for a west coast team, would theoretically work but Europe would be a tougher sell. Amazon also hasn't historically done a lot of remote work (as far as I've seen anyway) so, pre-COVID, an office would likely need to exist in a given area.
  - Hakashiro 5y ago
    I'm also pissed off when I see HN people seeing 200k or 300k salaries as "too low". Jesus, Americans are millionaires, what the hell?! I'll tell you the reason: they do this because they can. It's not talent, it's competition. Who in EU is going to give you even 80k as a junior? Nobody. So why bother offering 300k or even 150k when people will take the tole for 60 or 70k? Inb4 "but housing is more affordable!" Whatever. That's not related to the employer. It's simply racist. "You earn less because you're European" is the truth. It's not because cost of living is lower (although it's related) but it's just a matter of employers being able to get away with shitty pay.
    - mihaigalos 5y ago
      Yes, most likely. Would that not imply the following?: - most people will constantly change jobs in search of better pay. - foreign (especially US) companies have incentives to hire more in Brazil/EU.
  - rybosworld 5y ago
    "Not sure why I keep reading this over and over." Because it is true.
    - mihaigalos 5y ago
      Citation needed.
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
sangnoir 5y ago
Because US tech companies are making a lot of money, and could make even more if they hire more engineers.
- MuffinFlavored 5y ago
  My friend seems to think you can get the same value in a Brazilian engineer for $120k/yr (or less) compared to a US engineer for $200k-$300k/yr+
  - sangnoir 5y ago
    Sure you can, it's easy at a small scale[1], but at a certain scale, but you have to expend effort in learning Brazilian labor law, how to run background checks in Brazil and the rest of it and a bunch of factors that add friction. This is the whole silicon valley salaries vs rest of country, writ global. 1. i.e. skirt the laws while relying on mutually-benefiting aspects of the arrangement, assuming a 1-in-a-100 dispute won't happen and/or the tax authorities don't turn their gaze on your operation.

rybosworld 5y ago

European labor laws are a major factor. It's much harder to fire people and a company like Amazon loves to fire people. I imagine Brazil doesn't have enough of a talent pool to draw from.

mihaigalos 5y ago
> European labor laws are a major factor. It's much harder to fire people and a company like Amazon loves to fire people. Not sure why I keep reading this over and over. Yes, it can take up to 6 months to fire somebody here in Europe (usually 1-3 months though). The 6 months is usually for >15 years of uninterrupted work with the same company. Justifying that "the company cannot easily fire because of labor laws" is just plain wrong. If the 250k+$ jobs I'm constantly reading about are actually true, it's double the average that I've ever heard about for any type of Senior SW Devs in most competitive / innovative centers in the EU. 350k$ more so. Stocks are not even part of the TC. In most EU countries, SW Devs make about 50-60k€ as juniors. To reiterate, the math doesn't add up, so the argument must be talent, not laws.
- ehaughee 5y ago
  Speaking only for my own org's stated goals, they try to hire within the same timezone or close-by. So South America, for a west coast team, would theoretically work but Europe would be a tougher sell. Amazon also hasn't historically done a lot of remote work (as far as I've seen anyway) so, pre-COVID, an office would likely need to exist in a given area.
- Hakashiro 5y ago
  I'm also pissed off when I see HN people seeing 200k or 300k salaries as "too low". Jesus, Americans are millionaires, what the hell?! I'll tell you the reason: they do this because they can. It's not talent, it's competition. Who in EU is going to give you even 80k as a junior? Nobody. So why bother offering 300k or even 150k when people will take the tole for 60 or 70k? Inb4 "but housing is more affordable!" Whatever. That's not related to the employer. It's simply racist. "You earn less because you're European" is the truth. It's not because cost of living is lower (although it's related) but it's just a matter of employers being able to get away with shitty pay.
  - mihaigalos 5y ago
    Yes, most likely. Would that not imply the following?: - most people will constantly change jobs in search of better pay. - foreign (especially US) companies have incentives to hire more in Brazil/EU.
- rybosworld 5y ago
  "Not sure why I keep reading this over and over." Because it is true.
  - mihaigalos 5y ago
    Citation needed.

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago

sangnoir 5y ago

Because US tech companies are making a lot of money, and could make even more if they hire more engineers.

MuffinFlavored 5y ago
My friend seems to think you can get the same value in a Brazilian engineer for $120k/yr (or less) compared to a US engineer for $200k-$300k/yr+
- sangnoir 5y ago
  Sure you can, it's easy at a small scale[1], but at a certain scale, but you have to expend effort in learning Brazilian labor law, how to run background checks in Brazil and the rest of it and a bunch of factors that add friction. This is the whole silicon valley salaries vs rest of country, writ global. 1. i.e. skirt the laws while relying on mutually-benefiting aspects of the arrangement, assuming a 1-in-a-100 dispute won't happen and/or the tax authorities don't turn their gaze on your operation.