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At some point, no amount of money is worth it. I can hardly imagine earning $350k a year. I've never earned a third of that anually. What I can imagine is a jo

At some point, no amount of money is worth it. I can hardly imagine earning $350k a year. I've never earned a third of that anually. What I can imagine is a job that places such a demand on my time and attention that I don't have time for a life outside of it.

omegaworks 5y ago
Exactly. No amount of money can buy you time. You are committing to a significant quality of life deterioration during the period you are employed at Amazon.
CyanLite2 5y ago
You work there 3 years and you'll earn a million bucks. Plenty of life to live after that and a lot of money to do whatever it is you want. Many people are willing to make that tradeoff, perhaps not you though.
- vmception 5y ago
  and you get to say "ex-Amazon or ex-FAANG" on any of your future projects to a completely non-discerning audience that will drown out any nuanced discussion from cynics.
- vanusa 5y ago
  Plenty of life to live after that and a lot of money to do whatever it is you want. If your children hate you or you lose the love of your life -- or you ruin your health -- then what's the point of all that money and free time?
  - munk-a 5y ago
    Ruining your health is an aspect that I think gets far too little attention. If you're honestly working 16hr days your quality of life is going to absolutely tank and you'll be paying serious interest on the damage you do to your heart, back, eyes and wrists for decades to come.
  - 9530jh9054ven 5y ago
    Doesn't that kind of depend on having kids or love? There's probably a fair number of people out there skilled enough to do the work that doesn't have those things to distract from having a demanding job. Ultimately it's a decision that you'd have to make depending on what you care about. You could turn your question on it's head; what's the point of having children or a significant other if you are incapable or unwilling when you could be making money for the things you do care about in life?
    - vanusa 5y ago
      You could turn your question on it's head; what's the point of having children or a significant other if you are incapable or unwilling when you could be making money for the things you do care about in life? That's a good point, actually. Which I will bookmark as the perfect description of the kind of personality profile that is most suited to working at Amazon-- and perhaps the only personality type that can thrive there, actually.
      - reedjosh 5y ago
        I'm there and have a great life outside of work and a young family. I've yet to see the crazy culture everyone rants about. I prefer a bit tougher job that means I'll be financially free in 10 years. It also means my wife doesn't have to work and can really focus on raising our children. I've worked some long days, but not 16hrs. Plus I really dig the projects I'm on.
  - ant6n 5y ago
    > If your children hate you or you lose the love of your life -- or you ruin your health -- then what's the point of all that money and free time? You can ruin all that on a 70K job.
    - hackerfromthefu 5y ago
      Why run home behind a bus when you can run home behind a taxi?
vanusa 5y ago
At some point, no amount of money is worth it. That's the point these companies don't get, and never will get. All of their mouthed pronouncements about "wellness" and "work-life balance" notwithstanding.
JCM9 5y ago
$350k is just the max base salary (cash). Comp packages have multiple components and then the actual total compensation including the value of shares awarded would typically be higher, veritably much much higher for anyone getting $350k base. For a lot of senior tech employees “cash salary” is a small minority of total comp.
cosmodisk 5y ago
100%. I'm approaching the amounts that only a few years ago would have been in a fantasy land category, however there are issues with high stress levels, overtime and many others. I do understand many many people in my position would just pull through just because of money but eventually it wears out as a strong argument.
dan-robertson 5y ago
It’s easy and comforting to imagine that someone getting paid more than you must also suffer more than you – certainly well paid doctors and lawyers and investment bankers seem to suffer terrible working conditions – but it isn’t really true. A software developer earning an ordinary good salary (say $80k-$120k to pick some reference point) isn’t going to be working ‘harder’ than someone with a more manual job[1] earning much less pay or indeed your equivalent software developer in a poorer country, and unlike a skilled tradesman, the programmer is unlikely to reach 40 in a terrible physical condition with his muscles shot and some kind of chronic joint pain. And warren buffet is unlikely to be working much harder than the CEO of some smaller company. Most of the reason those big companies can pay software developers so we’ll is that they are worth it, and they can be worth it because they have more leverage: if you do something that causes a small company to be 1% better, and if that same thing would make a small part of a massive company 0.5% better, the latter can be worth a lot more just because the denominator is so much bigger. It feels harder to explain why they must pay so much. The first order argument is that there is lots of demand for software developers and that pushes up the price, but these companies are active in markets where developers are paid less well (e.g. Europe) and they could adjust hiring to favour candidates who are good but less competitive (e.g. because they are bad at a particular kind of interview) so I don’t understand why market forces haven’t lead to things being more balanced.
- vanusa 5y ago
  It’s easy and comforting to imagine that someone getting paid more than you must also suffer more than you However in the case of Amazon this isn't based on "imagining" but extremely widespread reports across multiple sources.
  - dan-robertson 5y ago
    Well all the examples I gave were from America. It’s true that at some jobs higher pay comes with worse conditions (eg hazard pay or working a night shift) but generally for programming (and many other professional jobs) higher pay comes with better conditions.
- deleted 5y ago
ramesh31 5y ago
>At some point, no amount of money is worth it. Speak for yourself, I guess. I would strap myself into the torture machine from Clockwork Orange for 8 hours a day if you paid me $350k to do it.
- ericd 5y ago
  What if you’d been an engineer at one of these sorts of companies for a while and already banked a mill? Two? Five?
- imwillofficial 5y ago
  Have you ever made $350k? The magic wears off fast and it doesn’t go as far as you imagine.
karmasimida 5y ago
You can start imagining though, 350k is ... not that much in high cost area like Bay/NYC/Seattle Especially so if you are single income family.
- ramesh31 5y ago
  >350k is ... not that much in high cost area like Bay/NYC/Seattle Yeah it really still is. Living in the bay area as a single 20 something making that kind of money you are approaching 1% status. Rent is a little higher sure, but what really is the difference between $2k/month and $4k/month when you're bringing home $20k+/month? And everything else in California besides housing is the same as anywhere else really in terms of cost of living.
  - karmasimida 5y ago
    For the record. You don't bring 20k+ per months, more like 9k+ after tax/401k contribution. And stock grants are liquid assets, but they are not cash, and most people I know won't exercise them right away, so they are still numbers in certain DB table
    - ericd 5y ago
      Eh for those liquidating them, most are turning most into equity in other companies/funds - ie a number in the same sort of DB table, albeit with a different ticker attached.
    - kaesar14 5y ago
      401k contributions are still savings, deduct that (at a max contribution rate that’s like 1.5k) and you’re at 10.5k a month. The bit about stock grants is meaningless, if it’s a public company that is straight cash.
- vanusa 5y ago
  Median household income in Santa Clara County is $140k. How on earth can you say that $350k is "not that much"?
delackner 5y ago
Just reiterating what some others said. The decision in your career life does not have to be a zero sum balance of low pay vs high stress/hours. There are several companies where the revenue they create per employee is so astronomical that reasonable work-life balance and high pay are on the table.

omegaworks 5y ago

Exactly. No amount of money can buy you time. You are committing to a significant quality of life deterioration during the period you are employed at Amazon.

CyanLite2 5y ago

You work there 3 years and you'll earn a million bucks. Plenty of life to live after that and a lot of money to do whatever it is you want. Many people are willing to make that tradeoff, perhaps not you though.

vmception 5y ago
and you get to say "ex-Amazon or ex-FAANG" on any of your future projects to a completely non-discerning audience that will drown out any nuanced discussion from cynics.
vanusa 5y ago
Plenty of life to live after that and a lot of money to do whatever it is you want. If your children hate you or you lose the love of your life -- or you ruin your health -- then what's the point of all that money and free time?
- munk-a 5y ago
  Ruining your health is an aspect that I think gets far too little attention. If you're honestly working 16hr days your quality of life is going to absolutely tank and you'll be paying serious interest on the damage you do to your heart, back, eyes and wrists for decades to come.
- 9530jh9054ven 5y ago
  Doesn't that kind of depend on having kids or love? There's probably a fair number of people out there skilled enough to do the work that doesn't have those things to distract from having a demanding job. Ultimately it's a decision that you'd have to make depending on what you care about. You could turn your question on it's head; what's the point of having children or a significant other if you are incapable or unwilling when you could be making money for the things you do care about in life?
  - vanusa 5y ago
    You could turn your question on it's head; what's the point of having children or a significant other if you are incapable or unwilling when you could be making money for the things you do care about in life? That's a good point, actually. Which I will bookmark as the perfect description of the kind of personality profile that is most suited to working at Amazon-- and perhaps the only personality type that can thrive there, actually.
    - reedjosh 5y ago
      I'm there and have a great life outside of work and a young family. I've yet to see the crazy culture everyone rants about. I prefer a bit tougher job that means I'll be financially free in 10 years. It also means my wife doesn't have to work and can really focus on raising our children. I've worked some long days, but not 16hrs. Plus I really dig the projects I'm on.
- ant6n 5y ago
  > If your children hate you or you lose the love of your life -- or you ruin your health -- then what's the point of all that money and free time? You can ruin all that on a 70K job.
  - hackerfromthefu 5y ago
    Why run home behind a bus when you can run home behind a taxi?

vanusa 5y ago

At some point, no amount of money is worth it. That's the point these companies don't get, and never will get. All of their mouthed pronouncements about "wellness" and "work-life balance" notwithstanding.

JCM9 5y ago

$350k is just the max base salary (cash). Comp packages have multiple components and then the actual total compensation including the value of shares awarded would typically be higher, veritably much much higher for anyone getting $350k base. For a lot of senior tech employees “cash salary” is a small minority of total comp.

cosmodisk 5y ago

100%. I'm approaching the amounts that only a few years ago would have been in a fantasy land category, however there are issues with high stress levels, overtime and many others. I do understand many many people in my position would just pull through just because of money but eventually it wears out as a strong argument.

dan-robertson 5y ago

It’s easy and comforting to imagine that someone getting paid more than you must also suffer more than you – certainly well paid doctors and lawyers and investment bankers seem to suffer terrible working conditions – but it isn’t really true. A software developer earning an ordinary good salary (say $80k-$120k to pick some reference point) isn’t going to be working ‘harder’ than someone with a more manual job[1] earning much less pay or indeed your equivalent software developer in a poorer country, and unlike a skilled tradesman, the programmer is unlikely to reach 40 in a terrible physical condition with his muscles shot and some kind of chronic joint pain. And warren buffet is unlikely to be working much harder than the CEO of some smaller company. Most of the reason those big companies can pay software developers so we’ll is that they are worth it, and they can be worth it because they have more leverage: if you do something that causes a small company to be 1% better, and if that same thing would make a small part of a massive company 0.5% better, the latter can be worth a lot more just because the denominator is so much bigger. It feels harder to explain why they must pay so much. The first order argument is that there is lots of demand for software developers and that pushes up the price, but these companies are active in markets where developers are paid less well (e.g. Europe) and they could adjust hiring to favour candidates who are good but less competitive (e.g. because they are bad at a particular kind of interview) so I don’t understand why market forces haven’t lead to things being more balanced.

vanusa 5y ago
It’s easy and comforting to imagine that someone getting paid more than you must also suffer more than you However in the case of Amazon this isn't based on "imagining" but extremely widespread reports across multiple sources.
- dan-robertson 5y ago
  Well all the examples I gave were from America. It’s true that at some jobs higher pay comes with worse conditions (eg hazard pay or working a night shift) but generally for programming (and many other professional jobs) higher pay comes with better conditions.
deleted 5y ago

ramesh31 5y ago

>At some point, no amount of money is worth it. Speak for yourself, I guess. I would strap myself into the torture machine from Clockwork Orange for 8 hours a day if you paid me $350k to do it.

ericd 5y ago
What if you’d been an engineer at one of these sorts of companies for a while and already banked a mill? Two? Five?
imwillofficial 5y ago
Have you ever made $350k? The magic wears off fast and it doesn’t go as far as you imagine.

karmasimida 5y ago

You can start imagining though, 350k is ... not that much in high cost area like Bay/NYC/Seattle Especially so if you are single income family.

ramesh31 5y ago
>350k is ... not that much in high cost area like Bay/NYC/Seattle Yeah it really still is. Living in the bay area as a single 20 something making that kind of money you are approaching 1% status. Rent is a little higher sure, but what really is the difference between $2k/month and $4k/month when you're bringing home $20k+/month? And everything else in California besides housing is the same as anywhere else really in terms of cost of living.
- karmasimida 5y ago
  For the record. You don't bring 20k+ per months, more like 9k+ after tax/401k contribution. And stock grants are liquid assets, but they are not cash, and most people I know won't exercise them right away, so they are still numbers in certain DB table
  - ericd 5y ago
    Eh for those liquidating them, most are turning most into equity in other companies/funds - ie a number in the same sort of DB table, albeit with a different ticker attached.
  - kaesar14 5y ago
    401k contributions are still savings, deduct that (at a max contribution rate that’s like 1.5k) and you’re at 10.5k a month. The bit about stock grants is meaningless, if it’s a public company that is straight cash.
vanusa 5y ago
Median household income in Santa Clara County is $140k. How on earth can you say that $350k is "not that much"?

delackner 5y ago

Just reiterating what some others said. The decision in your career life does not have to be a zero sum balance of low pay vs high stress/hours. There are several companies where the revenue they create per employee is so astronomical that reasonable work-life balance and high pay are on the table.