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PWA means "progressive web app". You know, the vision Steve Jobs and Apple had for iPhone apps before they released the App Store.[0] What about virtual experi
by coder543 5y ago
PWA means "progressive web app". You know, the vision Steve Jobs and Apple had for iPhone apps before they released the App Store.[0]
What about virtual experiences that are sold through an app that a customer uses, but are held on a different virtual platform? We’re not talking just about virtual events held through the app or FaceTime, we’re also talking about virtual events held through Zoom calls, it’s just that the app maker (for example, Airbnb) used their existing customer relationship to market virtual experiences, and Apple somehow decided that was different from the exception to selling (physical) goods and experiences that are also used outside the app.
If they aren’t using the app itself or FaceTime, how is it any different from an in-person event?
What if that in-person event includes teleconferencing equipment that links two locations together, do you suddenly need to give Apple 30%?
Apple's rules have an exception for 1:1 virtual events. So, if you suddenly bring your significant other to a virtual event that was classified as 1:1, will the app maker need to implement facial recognition DRM to ensure that there is only one participant on each side of the virtual event, or else they are in violation of Apple's rules and deserve to be banned because two people showed up instead of one?
The rules are deeply tedious, and often have no obvious rhyme or reason.
Regardless, Apple changed the rules, and I don’t have an option to opt out without giving up everything I’ve already bought. I could not have known they would change the rules in the ways they have, so to your earlier point, I could not have made a more informed decision. Would you like to offer the refunds on Apple’s behalf? Doubtful. This is clearly different from other retail relationships in ways that would benefit from being regulated. That’s the core discussion here. Apple is not just another retailer, and the App Store is not just another store.
> Clarifying the rules is not the same as changing them, ask any hermeneutic.
They did not clarify the rules. They absolutely changed the rules, and this is not the first time either. Your whole argument is invalid if they changed the rules, so of course you're holding on dearly to that incorrect point. Apple argues that some apps were accidentally paying them revenue for that already, therefore it would be "unfair" for them not to take that revenue from everyone... but it wasn't in the rules before, period. Apple added the rule so that they could add more revenue.
You may think my opinion is irrelevant, and that’s fine, but my opinion is as logically self-consistent as I can make it. Apple’s rules are the ones that hold very little self-consistency right now, and are just overreaching in any way they think they can get away with, which is getting tiresome.
[0]: https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/03/remembering-apples-sweet-solution-for-iphone-apps-before-the-app-store/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/03/remembering-apples-sweet-solu...
- Grustaf 5y agoApart from push notifications, which I don't think a lot of people want from their web apps, in what way are they being crippled by Apple?
- coder543 5y agoRegarding people not wanting push notifications, I would refer you back to this comment from a couple years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24643185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24643185 There is a small but significant group of people that I've only found on HN who seem to claim to just not use notifications at all on their smartphones, but this is not how most people operate. Regarding your question, there are definitely still important areas such as Background Sync: https://caniuse.com/background-sync https://caniuse.com/background-sync If you try to send a message in WhatsApp, Signal, or whatever, but you were on the elevator and your phone was offline at that moment, it would be a pretty poor user experience if the app didn't send the message as soon as your phone was connected again, even if you had switched away. This is currently problematic for PWAs on iOS. Similarly, if you get a notification, apps will often get a small allocation of background time to fetch content related to the notification so that it is cached when the user clicks on the notification. Apple wouldn't offer this to native apps if they didn't think it was useful. Here's an article talking about the benefits of the feature: https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2015/12/background-sync https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2015/12/background... "Web apps" in this context should just be thought of as "apps". The fact that they're effectively bookmarks added to your home screen and operate without the user interface of Safari is just an implementation detail. I'm not talking about spam blogs trying to send you notifications. If you were required to "install" a PWA to your home screen before it could prompt for these other permissions, that would be perfectly fine, and a great way to avoid getting spammed for requests to send you spam notifications from random websites. Safari has fallen way behind other browsers on lots of standards, not just PWAs, so it's not terribly surprising that they aren't keeping up with PWA-related standards either, but it is disappointing. And, of course, Apple still doesn't allow third party browser engines to fill in the gaps.
- Grustaf 5y ago