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I’d appreciate if Apple keeps the UI/UX as is. It’s already degraded so much, but changing UI for the sake of fashion might be good for business (average users)

I’d appreciate if Apple keeps the UI/UX as is. It’s already degraded so much, but changing UI for the sake of fashion might be good for business (average users), it sucks for developers and people that need a stable OS. You know, “Pros”. They’ve fucked with the UI for every generation and instead of refining it, they keep chasing trends. These designers are the antithesis of everything good design should stand for. Function, clarity, robustness, reduction of ambiguity and mainly getting out of the way. I don’t consider them designers, they’re marketers in the disguise of designers. I think the term “design” itself has degraded in my view. Apple is one leading this movement. It’s a strange and powerful company with tech x luxury fashion combined to reap cash. It does so well. But, I wish it didn’t influence designers outside of Apple so much. No one has conviction anymore.

deergomoo 5y ago
It didn’t used to be this way. Apple software used to be functional, intuitive, and fun in a lot of cases. Things went downhill rapidly when Jony Ive’s team took over software design. I wasn’t a huge fan of the gaudy extreme skeuomorphism of the late Forstall era, but at least you could tell what was a button. What you could do with a piece of software was much clearer. The current team are insistent that simplicity is when controls are hidden behind hover and tap states, or inside overflow menus in a toolbar only 5% full.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jhickok 5y ago
  I just want their native apps to work, and a lot of times I find they are busted. No excuse for that.
  - deergomoo 5y ago
    They don’t handle failure well. I’m not sure if this has always been the case, but the fact that most have some sort of network component now have made it very obvious. The general lack of visibility into what is actually happening is incredibly annoying. Anything that involves syncing is in dire need of “stop and start again” button.
    - jhickok 5y ago
      I actually just found out that you could force a resync on the podcasts app on macos by hitting CMD + R and that has solved some of the issues I have where I just wait around for new episodes to sync (pull down for refresh is a nightmare with a trackpad on a mac laptop). But still, it's slow (can take 10-20 seconds for a podcast to begin playing), buggy (can take a full minute for the title to appear in the display after it has already started-- so you cannot skip the first 30 seconds of ads), or just broken (havent started the app in a while? guess I will crash trying to sync all those episodes you missed). Really infuriating.
    - egypturnash 5y ago
      ugh yes, also a "sync right now" button
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- dont__panic 5y ago
  The "new folder" workflow in Finder is one of the most infuriating things I've ever seen in macOS. I swear, they used to just have a "new folder" button in the olden days.
  - tw600040 5y ago
    They still have a new folder button. I still see it
  - quesera 5y ago
    Cmd+Shift+N works, when the UI fails.
  - kamokujin 5y ago
    It was really frustrating till I realized they didn't completely remove the button. The icon is just hidden in the customise toolbar options.
  - davidbarker 5y ago
    I actually didn't know there ever used to be a New Folder button, but that prompted me to customise the toolbar in Finder and I see it as an option (and have now added it).
    - dont__panic 5y ago
      OK I'll admit I didn't realize you could right click -> "customize toolbar". That seems to work in almost all native apps (Mail and Finder for me, at least). And you can turn on text labels in the options! Finally I can get rid of the tagging button in Finder and replace it with a New Folder button. And I can ditch all of those buttons I don't use at the top of the Mail app to keep the "search" bar open at all times.
dont__panic 5y ago
Agreed. When I think of good (Apple) design, I think of the 2012-2015 first generation retina MacBook Pros -- a slight refinement of the previous era, thinning the chassis when possible, upgrading ports, improving the screen, but largely preserving the best elements of the old design. There were some losses -- the sleep indicator light, the battery LEDs, ethernet, maybe some of the reliability of the Magsafe 1 connection -- but I would say that they largely improved on an existing design. Similar with OS X releases in that time period, Apple largely iterated on the existing Snow Leopard-ish design instead of blowing things up with fancy new designs. Funnily enough, I remember many, many tech reviewers in 2014, 2015 criticizing the MacBook Pro for that "ancient" design. And Apple eventually gave in and redesigned both the laptops (yuck) and OS X (maybe even more yuck). UI/UX is tricky, I think, because in an industry where folks move around every couple of years to maximize their salaries, people aren't rewarded for being good, iterative stewards of an existing system. Instead, they change jobs, someone new comes in, and they try to make a name for themselves by redesigning everything through a big bang redesign. And then they move on a couple years later, and then someone else comes in and redesigns... etc. etc. Sidenote: Holy cow, this also explains why the government sucks so much.

deergomoo 5y ago

It didn’t used to be this way. Apple software used to be functional, intuitive, and fun in a lot of cases. Things went downhill rapidly when Jony Ive’s team took over software design. I wasn’t a huge fan of the gaudy extreme skeuomorphism of the late Forstall era, but at least you could tell what was a button. What you could do with a piece of software was much clearer. The current team are insistent that simplicity is when controls are hidden behind hover and tap states, or inside overflow menus in a toolbar only 5% full.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jhickok 5y ago
I just want their native apps to work, and a lot of times I find they are busted. No excuse for that.
- deergomoo 5y ago
  They don’t handle failure well. I’m not sure if this has always been the case, but the fact that most have some sort of network component now have made it very obvious. The general lack of visibility into what is actually happening is incredibly annoying. Anything that involves syncing is in dire need of “stop and start again” button.
  - jhickok 5y ago
    I actually just found out that you could force a resync on the podcasts app on macos by hitting CMD + R and that has solved some of the issues I have where I just wait around for new episodes to sync (pull down for refresh is a nightmare with a trackpad on a mac laptop). But still, it's slow (can take 10-20 seconds for a podcast to begin playing), buggy (can take a full minute for the title to appear in the display after it has already started-- so you cannot skip the first 30 seconds of ads), or just broken (havent started the app in a while? guess I will crash trying to sync all those episodes you missed). Really infuriating.
  - egypturnash 5y ago
    ugh yes, also a "sync right now" button
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
dont__panic 5y ago
The "new folder" workflow in Finder is one of the most infuriating things I've ever seen in macOS. I swear, they used to just have a "new folder" button in the olden days.
- tw600040 5y ago
  They still have a new folder button. I still see it
- quesera 5y ago
  Cmd+Shift+N works, when the UI fails.
- kamokujin 5y ago
  It was really frustrating till I realized they didn't completely remove the button. The icon is just hidden in the customise toolbar options.
- davidbarker 5y ago
  I actually didn't know there ever used to be a New Folder button, but that prompted me to customise the toolbar in Finder and I see it as an option (and have now added it).
  - dont__panic 5y ago
    OK I'll admit I didn't realize you could right click -> "customize toolbar". That seems to work in almost all native apps (Mail and Finder for me, at least). And you can turn on text labels in the options! Finally I can get rid of the tagging button in Finder and replace it with a New Folder button. And I can ditch all of those buttons I don't use at the top of the Mail app to keep the "search" bar open at all times.

dont__panic 5y ago

Agreed. When I think of good (Apple) design, I think of the 2012-2015 first generation retina MacBook Pros -- a slight refinement of the previous era, thinning the chassis when possible, upgrading ports, improving the screen, but largely preserving the best elements of the old design. There were some losses -- the sleep indicator light, the battery LEDs, ethernet, maybe some of the reliability of the Magsafe 1 connection -- but I would say that they largely improved on an existing design. Similar with OS X releases in that time period, Apple largely iterated on the existing Snow Leopard-ish design instead of blowing things up with fancy new designs. Funnily enough, I remember many, many tech reviewers in 2014, 2015 criticizing the MacBook Pro for that "ancient" design. And Apple eventually gave in and redesigned both the laptops (yuck) and OS X (maybe even more yuck). UI/UX is tricky, I think, because in an industry where folks move around every couple of years to maximize their salaries, people aren't rewarded for being good, iterative stewards of an existing system. Instead, they change jobs, someone new comes in, and they try to make a name for themselves by redesigning everything through a big bang redesign. And then they move on a couple years later, and then someone else comes in and redesigns... etc. etc. Sidenote: Holy cow, this also explains why the government sucks so much.