2 ms·

> Ask what a file is, or a directory and majority of iphone users have no idea! Permissions too! I have bad news for you if you think normal computer users wer

> Ask what a file is, or a directory and majority of iphone users have no idea! Permissions too! I have bad news for you if you think normal computer users were mostly good at understanding or explaining these things in the 90s or 2000s or whatever.

gorjusborg 5y ago
That could be just another way of saying 'normal' computer users were not really 'computer literate' during those times. Having lived through them myself, I wouldn't argue. That said, I think the the term 'computer literate' is much less defined than 'literate', so using the term is a good way to start an argument.
- brimble 5y ago
  Yeah, I just disagree with "iPhones are making people unable to use computers well" concerns, whatever the definition of "computer literate". My experience has been that outside of enthusiast or professional tech circles, and those directly adjacent, knowing stuff like where to expect a USB disk to appear when it's plugged in, or that you can cut/copy/paste files, what you can and can't drag-n-drop, where to expect common actions to show up in menus, the concept of UI focus and how it basically works in practice, and so on, places you in the (lower end of) top-tier of computer users, and pretty much always has. People, in general, have never understood how to use a computer well. We've had the term "power user" for folks who halfway know how to use a computer for decades now, because even most people who work with a desktop every day do not know that, and it's not like that was different pre-smartphone. Either simple, ordinary GUI computer use is actually much harder than we (on a site like this) think, or the UIs and metaphors we use are flat-out awful and need to be re-thought from the ground up (what might that look like? Well, iOS has tried...). Or some combination of the two. [EDIT] My point about the definition of "computer literate" hardly mattering is that I think you have to stretch it so far that it becomes useless before you manage to capture most computer users, since at least when they became common in offices. You have to put the bar practically on the floor before most users will pass it. I don't (entirely) blame users for that, to be clear, and think it has a lot to do with fundamental mistakes in how our profession and industry build & present UIs to ordinary folks who don't want to devote half their brain to understanding how computers work. It has very little to do with iPhones.

gorjusborg 5y ago

That could be just another way of saying 'normal' computer users were not really 'computer literate' during those times. Having lived through them myself, I wouldn't argue. That said, I think the the term 'computer literate' is much less defined than 'literate', so using the term is a good way to start an argument.

brimble 5y ago
Yeah, I just disagree with "iPhones are making people unable to use computers well" concerns, whatever the definition of "computer literate". My experience has been that outside of enthusiast or professional tech circles, and those directly adjacent, knowing stuff like where to expect a USB disk to appear when it's plugged in, or that you can cut/copy/paste files, what you can and can't drag-n-drop, where to expect common actions to show up in menus, the concept of UI focus and how it basically works in practice, and so on, places you in the (lower end of) top-tier of computer users, and pretty much always has. People, in general, have never understood how to use a computer well. We've had the term "power user" for folks who halfway know how to use a computer for decades now, because even most people who work with a desktop every day do not know that, and it's not like that was different pre-smartphone. Either simple, ordinary GUI computer use is actually much harder than we (on a site like this) think, or the UIs and metaphors we use are flat-out awful and need to be re-thought from the ground up (what might that look like? Well, iOS has tried...). Or some combination of the two. [EDIT] My point about the definition of "computer literate" hardly mattering is that I think you have to stretch it so far that it becomes useless before you manage to capture most computer users, since at least when they became common in offices. You have to put the bar practically on the floor before most users will pass it. I don't (entirely) blame users for that, to be clear, and think it has a lot to do with fundamental mistakes in how our profession and industry build & present UIs to ordinary folks who don't want to devote half their brain to understanding how computers work. It has very little to do with iPhones.