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>The reality is that there aren't enough upper class people to generate sufficient tax revenue for a meaningful UBI. What makes you think so? There are a lot

by totony 5y ago

>The reality is that there aren't enough upper class people to generate sufficient tax revenue for a meaningful UBI. What makes you think so? There are a lot of discussion online about the costs/benefits of UBI. This article has an US-centric view on how this could be afforded https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/budget-neutral-universal-basic-income-plan-would-pay-1320-per-month.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/budget-neutral-universal-bas...

giantg2 5y ago
Interesting. Sounds like it axes Medicare, SS, and a large number of tax deductions (which is how the US implements a lot of policy). I'd love a simplified tax code, but unsure of the SS and Medicare removal. I wonder how that would look for people who are currently collecting, paying in at various stages, etc. That would be a massive windfall for most if the money paid-in was returned. I'm not sure which veteran benefits they want to get rid of specifically, but this could be a bad idea. One of the main ways to increase economic class if one is poor is to serve in the military and have the pay for college after they get out (yes, the payment could cover part of it, assuming they aren't using it for living expenses which would be mostly covered during their enlistment). The VA is under funded and doesn't have a great record, but that's so highly beneficial to many.
- nybble41 5y ago
  > Sounds like it axes Medicare, SS, and a large number of tax deductions… … as well various special-purpose programs including housing benefits, SSI, SNAP, TANF, veteran's benefits, WIC, Medicaid, SS Disability, and disaster relief. I'm sure those currently receiving these benefits will be thrilled to find out that they're being replaced by a flat UBI payment of $15k/yr (minus taxes) with no allowance for special circumstances or hardship. > [SS and Medicare removal] would be a massive windfall for most if the money paid-in was returned. Undoubtedly, but what are the odds of that happening?
  - relaxing 5y ago
    It sounds like you’re being sarcastic, but it will be vastly preferable to avoid the bureaucracy that comes with all those programs. Not to mention the cognitive burden that comes from constantly being means tested.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      "but it will be vastly preferable" To whom? The government, sure. The individuals using those programs, probably not. Healthcare costs alone would likely wipe that out (for the demographics using Medicare). Rent in many areas would eat more than half.
      - relaxing 5y ago
        Rent is expensive in big cities? Wow, the poor are gonna be so pissed when they find out. /s Affordable housing is a separate issue and point of concern no matter who is paying.
        giantg2 5y ago
        That's not a separate issue. One of the programs they would cut is housing assistance. So that directly affects it. You could say that housing costs are a larger issue. However that issue is largely a non-issue for the demographic we are talking about currently since they qualify for stuff like HUD assistance (which would be removed under the plan).
        totony 5y ago
        I think the premisr of the proposition is that UBI makes housing assistances superfluous, since UBI should cover basic needs.
        giantg2 5y ago
        That may be the premise, but as stated earlier in this chain, it appears to be false ($15k won't cover healthcare, housing, etc that would be removed under the proposal).

by totony 5y ago

giantg2 5y ago

Interesting. Sounds like it axes Medicare, SS, and a large number of tax deductions (which is how the US implements a lot of policy). I'd love a simplified tax code, but unsure of the SS and Medicare removal. I wonder how that would look for people who are currently collecting, paying in at various stages, etc. That would be a massive windfall for most if the money paid-in was returned. I'm not sure which veteran benefits they want to get rid of specifically, but this could be a bad idea. One of the main ways to increase economic class if one is poor is to serve in the military and have the pay for college after they get out (yes, the payment could cover part of it, assuming they aren't using it for living expenses which would be mostly covered during their enlistment). The VA is under funded and doesn't have a great record, but that's so highly beneficial to many.

nybble41 5y ago
> Sounds like it axes Medicare, SS, and a large number of tax deductions… … as well various special-purpose programs including housing benefits, SSI, SNAP, TANF, veteran's benefits, WIC, Medicaid, SS Disability, and disaster relief. I'm sure those currently receiving these benefits will be thrilled to find out that they're being replaced by a flat UBI payment of $15k/yr (minus taxes) with no allowance for special circumstances or hardship. > [SS and Medicare removal] would be a massive windfall for most if the money paid-in was returned. Undoubtedly, but what are the odds of that happening?
- relaxing 5y ago
  It sounds like you’re being sarcastic, but it will be vastly preferable to avoid the bureaucracy that comes with all those programs. Not to mention the cognitive burden that comes from constantly being means tested.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    "but it will be vastly preferable" To whom? The government, sure. The individuals using those programs, probably not. Healthcare costs alone would likely wipe that out (for the demographics using Medicare). Rent in many areas would eat more than half.
    - relaxing 5y ago
      Rent is expensive in big cities? Wow, the poor are gonna be so pissed when they find out. /s Affordable housing is a separate issue and point of concern no matter who is paying.
      - giantg2 5y ago
        That's not a separate issue. One of the programs they would cut is housing assistance. So that directly affects it. You could say that housing costs are a larger issue. However that issue is largely a non-issue for the demographic we are talking about currently since they qualify for stuff like HUD assistance (which would be removed under the plan).
        totony 5y ago
        I think the premisr of the proposition is that UBI makes housing assistances superfluous, since UBI should cover basic needs.
        giantg2 5y ago
        That may be the premise, but as stated earlier in this chain, it appears to be false ($15k won't cover healthcare, housing, etc that would be removed under the proposal).