4 ms·

"For an encore: Sex tips by rapists, explosive manufacture by suicide bombers, vegetarian cooking by A. Hitler, marketing tips from J. Goebbels and how to run a

"For an encore: Sex tips by rapists, explosive manufacture by suicide bombers, vegetarian cooking by A. Hitler, marketing tips from J. Goebbels and how to run a start-up by Elizabeth Holmes." I understand that you wrote it in jest, but isn't Goebbels studied precisely due to the nature of marketing ( propaganda ) he employed? I personally find it interesting. Why does association work so well? Why does it automatically follow that if Hitler wrote an absolutely spectacular vegan recipe that basically cures cancer, it is automatically off limits to everyone? Before you answer, note that Americans brought some actual Nazi scientists after WW2(operation paperclip). Should US have done without?

jacquesm 5y ago
The US (and Russian, by the way) appropriation of German scientists and Nazi party members post WWII is certainly controversial and there are plenty of people who strongly believe that they should have stood trial in Nuremberg instead of being given a new job with plenty of perks. As Tom Lehrer wrote: "Don't say that he's hypocritical, Say rather that he's apolitical. "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department, " says Wernher von Braun." The sarcasm dripping of those words is hard to replicate without hearing it sung, I recommend the original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJ9HrZq7Ro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJ9HrZq7Ro
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  But, in your opinion, was it the right thing for US to do? Say you are Truman. You are responsible for US and how it fares on the world stage. What would be the right thing to do? Show trials in Nuremberg will satisfy the public. Useful heads and knowledge at the very least would be prevented from going to Russia, where who knows what they would work on. If Braun was truly apolitical, history timeline could have easily changed.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Utilitarian arguments and ethics rarely go together well, hence 'realpolitik'. What my opinion is on the matter is irrelevant, history has run its course and here we are. We're well into 'old man lost his horse' territory now, of course you never know what the utility of a particular event is in the longer term. The doctor that saves the baby's life may well have caused a mass murderer to live a long and productive life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_old_man_lost_his_horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_old_man_lost_his_horse
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
      I agree. We are just two random people on the internet discussing things passed. One never really knows what the action is going to ultimately accomplish, but if the opinion on that particular matter is irrelevant, why is the following opinion relevant: "Those are books I can do without."? If the history has ran its course, does it matter?
    - bobthechef 5y ago
      [dead]
- robgibbons 5y ago
  In contrast to the satirical lyric by Tom Lehrer, here's an actual quote attributed to von Braun: “The rocket worked perfectly, except for landing on the wrong planet.“ — Wernher von Braun remark to a colleague after the first V-2 rocket hit London (September 1944), as quoted in Apollo in Perspective: Spaceflight Then and Now (1999) by Jonathan Allday, p. 85
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    I think it is safe to assume that Von Braun was never under any illusions as to on what planet his rockets were going to come down and what was going to be the result of that. So even if Tom Lehrer took some artistic license I think he's on the money.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      The most generous reading would probably be something like he wished he were shooting for other planets, in stead of cities with people in. Dunno whether to buy that, but at least doesn't feel totally implausible.

jacquesm 5y ago

The US (and Russian, by the way) appropriation of German scientists and Nazi party members post WWII is certainly controversial and there are plenty of people who strongly believe that they should have stood trial in Nuremberg instead of being given a new job with plenty of perks. As Tom Lehrer wrote: "Don't say that he's hypocritical, Say rather that he's apolitical. "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department, " says Wernher von Braun." The sarcasm dripping of those words is hard to replicate without hearing it sung, I recommend the original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJ9HrZq7Ro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJ9HrZq7Ro

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
But, in your opinion, was it the right thing for US to do? Say you are Truman. You are responsible for US and how it fares on the world stage. What would be the right thing to do? Show trials in Nuremberg will satisfy the public. Useful heads and knowledge at the very least would be prevented from going to Russia, where who knows what they would work on. If Braun was truly apolitical, history timeline could have easily changed.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Utilitarian arguments and ethics rarely go together well, hence 'realpolitik'. What my opinion is on the matter is irrelevant, history has run its course and here we are. We're well into 'old man lost his horse' territory now, of course you never know what the utility of a particular event is in the longer term. The doctor that saves the baby's life may well have caused a mass murderer to live a long and productive life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_old_man_lost_his_horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_old_man_lost_his_horse
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
    I agree. We are just two random people on the internet discussing things passed. One never really knows what the action is going to ultimately accomplish, but if the opinion on that particular matter is irrelevant, why is the following opinion relevant: "Those are books I can do without."? If the history has ran its course, does it matter?
  - bobthechef 5y ago
    [dead]
robgibbons 5y ago
In contrast to the satirical lyric by Tom Lehrer, here's an actual quote attributed to von Braun: “The rocket worked perfectly, except for landing on the wrong planet.“ — Wernher von Braun remark to a colleague after the first V-2 rocket hit London (September 1944), as quoted in Apollo in Perspective: Spaceflight Then and Now (1999) by Jonathan Allday, p. 85
- jacquesm 5y ago
  I think it is safe to assume that Von Braun was never under any illusions as to on what planet his rockets were going to come down and what was going to be the result of that. So even if Tom Lehrer took some artistic license I think he's on the money.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    The most generous reading would probably be something like he wished he were shooting for other planets, in stead of cities with people in. Dunno whether to buy that, but at least doesn't feel totally implausible.