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"Their equity" is the wrong way of thinking about it - the RSU schedule is fully visible up front, and in the first 2 years low RSU grants are offset by a sign-

"Their equity" is the wrong way of thinking about it - the RSU schedule is fully visible up front, and in the first 2 years low RSU grants are offset by a sign-on bonus. In my case, I was told what my target TC per year was, and that is what I've received (at minimum), just made up of a varying mix of bonus and RSUs. Saying that un-vested RSUs are "mine" is like laying claim to next year's salary before having done any of the work to earn it.

bin_bash 5y ago
I'm pretty sure every other big tech company offers sign on bonuses with an evenly distributed vesting schedule.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
  - bin_bash 5y ago
    what a poor comment. What would've been nice if you could've explained what I'm missing. For the record I work at a different big tech company and was given a massive sign-on bonus. I also have received an offer from Amazon in the past. I know how to read levels.fyi so I'm not sure what it is that I'm missing exactly.
    - MisterPea 5y ago
      If Amazon and a standard tech company both gave ~200k offers with a 100k base they would look like this: Amazon: 100k base, 250k stock over 4 years (5-15-40-40), ~175k sign-on over 2 years Other: 100k base, 400k stock over 4 years (25-25-25-25), ~25k sign-on immediately Essentially the lack of stock over the first 2 years is offset by the sign-on
      - RussianCow 5y ago
        What company is only giving $25k in signing bonuses? Everyone I know who works at a (non-Amazon) FAANG got significantly more than that.
        MisterPea 5y ago
        For what role/company? A 200k offer implies SDE 1/2 and a 25k sign-on is probably median for that, even big tech. Of course there is Meta giving insane sign-on but for the most part it's around 25k
        RussianCow 5y ago
        I assumed those numbers were made up to show scale. Is Amazon really giving $175k sign-on bonuses to SDE 1/2 positions? Are their sign-on bonuses ~7x higher than other companies' for higher level positions as well? That seems crazy.
      - potatolicious 5y ago
        I think the point is that (using your example) you can get a 100K base, 400K stock, and the 175K signon at a different company. The point is that while Amazon may offer you a higher signon in lieue of equity, at other FAANGs the choice can be both. FWIW I've seen recently (in the past year or so) non-AMZN FAANG sign-ons well north of $200K (split over 2 years), along with a top-of-line stock package that vests linearly. Overall, AMZN's backloaded vesting schedule may be "evened out" via the use of generous signing bonuses, but ultimately is still uncompetitive with other FAANGs. More generally AMZN's TC - no matter which way you cut it - tends to trend lower than competing-tier peer companies.
        MisterPea 5y ago
        Hmm, maybe I'm just ignorant of what's out there, what company gives out 200k sign-on and a linear stock vest? I'm mostly using an example of an SDE 1/2 (hence 200k offer) and for the most part I've only seen Amazon give a sign-on that high and over 2 years. For Sr engineers, I've seen Amazon offers north of 700k sign-on split over 2 years
- ctvo 5y ago
  What are your big tech companies? Does it include Google? If so, your statement is incorrect. More correct: Of the big tech companies, only Amazon structures its RSU so it's heavily backloaded.
  - chhamilton 5y ago
    Exactly this. Google sign-on equity is actually front loaded now: 33%, 33%, 22%, 12%. Refresh grants (nominally every year) vest equally at 25% per year. Vests are monthly or quarterly, depending on the size of your grant. Since initial grants are larger (roughly 2x) than refresher grants, the equal vesting of the initial grant (old behavior) could cause a significant drop in compensation for new hires after 4 years at the company (the dreaded equity cliff). This would only happen for relatively "flat" performers, as if you're on an upwards trajectory the larger size of later grants would eventually catch up to your initial equity grant. Let's say the sign on equity was 200 shares, and refreshers were 100. With equal vesting it would look like: Year 1: 50 shares Year 2: 50 + 1 x 25 = 75 shares total Year 3: 50 + 2 x 25 = 100 shares total Year 4: 50 + 3 x 25 = 125 shares total Years 5+: 4 x 25 = 100 shares total (20% drop!) The problem has actually been worse, because grants are actually in dollars and the stock has been growing consistently year over year. Which means earlier grants are worth more in dollars in later years than new grants, despite having the same dollar value at the time of issue. Let's say 20% yoy, which is not far off from average over the last 10 years. We'll work in dollars and say the initial grant was worth $200K at sign-on time and later grants worth $100K. Year 1: $50K = $50K Year 2: $50K * 1.2 + $25K = $85K Year 3: $50K * 1.2^2 + $25K * 1.2 + $25K = $127K Year 4: $50K * 1.2^3 + $25K * 1.2^2 + $25K * 1.2 + $25K = $177.4K Years 5+: $25K * 1.2^3 + $25K * 1.2^2 + $25K * 1.2 + $25K = $134.2K (23% drop!) With the frontloading this becomes: Year 1: 66 shares Year 2: 66 + 1 x 25 = 91 shares Year 3: 44 + 2 x 25 = 94 shares Year 4: 12 + 3 x 25 = 87 shares (7% drop) Years 5+: 4 x 25 = 100 shares With stock appreciation this becomes: Year 1: $66K Year 2: $66K * 1.2 + $25K = $104K Year 3: $44K * 1.2^2 + $25K * 1.2 + $25K = $118.4K Year 4: $24k * 1.2^3 + $25K * 1.2^2 + $25K * 1.2 + $25K = $132.5K Years 5+: $25K * 1.2^3 + $25K * 1.2^2 + $25K * 1.2 + $25K = $134.2K So the dip is entirely smoothed over. Add in natural increases do to career growth and you no longer notice it.

bin_bash 5y ago

I'm pretty sure every other big tech company offers sign on bonuses with an evenly distributed vesting schedule.

ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
- bin_bash 5y ago
  what a poor comment. What would've been nice if you could've explained what I'm missing. For the record I work at a different big tech company and was given a massive sign-on bonus. I also have received an offer from Amazon in the past. I know how to read levels.fyi so I'm not sure what it is that I'm missing exactly.
  - MisterPea 5y ago
    If Amazon and a standard tech company both gave ~200k offers with a 100k base they would look like this: Amazon: 100k base, 250k stock over 4 years (5-15-40-40), ~175k sign-on over 2 years Other: 100k base, 400k stock over 4 years (25-25-25-25), ~25k sign-on immediately Essentially the lack of stock over the first 2 years is offset by the sign-on
    - RussianCow 5y ago
      What company is only giving $25k in signing bonuses? Everyone I know who works at a (non-Amazon) FAANG got significantly more than that.
      - MisterPea 5y ago
        For what role/company? A 200k offer implies SDE 1/2 and a 25k sign-on is probably median for that, even big tech. Of course there is Meta giving insane sign-on but for the most part it's around 25k
        RussianCow 5y ago
        I assumed those numbers were made up to show scale. Is Amazon really giving $175k sign-on bonuses to SDE 1/2 positions? Are their sign-on bonuses ~7x higher than other companies' for higher level positions as well? That seems crazy.
    - potatolicious 5y ago
      I think the point is that (using your example) you can get a 100K base, 400K stock, and the 175K signon at a different company. The point is that while Amazon may offer you a higher signon in lieue of equity, at other FAANGs the choice can be both. FWIW I've seen recently (in the past year or so) non-AMZN FAANG sign-ons well north of $200K (split over 2 years), along with a top-of-line stock package that vests linearly. Overall, AMZN's backloaded vesting schedule may be "evened out" via the use of generous signing bonuses, but ultimately is still uncompetitive with other FAANGs. More generally AMZN's TC - no matter which way you cut it - tends to trend lower than competing-tier peer companies.
      - MisterPea 5y ago
        Hmm, maybe I'm just ignorant of what's out there, what company gives out 200k sign-on and a linear stock vest? I'm mostly using an example of an SDE 1/2 (hence 200k offer) and for the most part I've only seen Amazon give a sign-on that high and over 2 years. For Sr engineers, I've seen Amazon offers north of 700k sign-on split over 2 years
ctvo 5y ago
What are your big tech companies? Does it include Google? If so, your statement is incorrect. More correct: Of the big tech companies, only Amazon structures its RSU so it's heavily backloaded.
- chhamilton 5y ago
  Exactly this. Google sign-on equity is actually front loaded now: 33%, 33%, 22%, 12%. Refresh grants (nominally every year) vest equally at 25% per year. Vests are monthly or quarterly, depending on the size of your grant. Since initial grants are larger (roughly 2x) than refresher grants, the equal vesting of the initial grant (old behavior) could cause a significant drop in compensation for new hires after 4 years at the company (the dreaded equity cliff). This would only happen for relatively "flat" performers, as if you're on an upwards trajectory the larger size of later grants would eventually catch up to your initial equity grant. Let's say the sign on equity was 200 shares, and refreshers were 100. With equal vesting it would look like: Year 1: 50 shares Year 2: 50 + 1 x 25 = 75 shares total Year 3: 50 + 2 x 25 = 100 shares total Year 4: 50 + 3 x 25 = 125 shares total Years 5+: 4 x 25 = 100 shares total (20% drop!) The problem has actually been worse, because grants are actually in dollars and the stock has been growing consistently year over year. Which means earlier grants are worth more in dollars in later years than new grants, despite having the same dollar value at the time of issue. Let's say 20% yoy, which is not far off from average over the last 10 years. We'll work in dollars and say the initial grant was worth $200K at sign-on time and later grants worth $100K. Year 1: $50K = $50K Year 2: $50K * 1.2 + $25K = $85K Year 3: $50K * 1.2^2 + $25K * 1.2 + $25K = $127K Year 4: $50K * 1.2^3 + $25K * 1.2^2 + $25K * 1.2 + $25K = $177.4K Years 5+: $25K * 1.2^3 + $25K * 1.2^2 + $25K * 1.2 + $25K = $134.2K (23% drop!) With the frontloading this becomes: Year 1: 66 shares Year 2: 66 + 1 x 25 = 91 shares Year 3: 44 + 2 x 25 = 94 shares Year 4: 12 + 3 x 25 = 87 shares (7% drop) Years 5+: 4 x 25 = 100 shares With stock appreciation this becomes: Year 1: $66K Year 2: $66K * 1.2 + $25K = $104K Year 3: $44K * 1.2^2 + $25K * 1.2 + $25K = $118.4K Year 4: $24k * 1.2^3 + $25K * 1.2^2 + $25K * 1.2 + $25K = $132.5K Years 5+: $25K * 1.2^3 + $25K * 1.2^2 + $25K * 1.2 + $25K = $134.2K So the dip is entirely smoothed over. Add in natural increases do to career growth and you no longer notice it.