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The other side of it is that if someone is really attached to being an expert at front end and feels skill atrophying then maybe it really isn't a fit. I can re

The other side of it is that if someone is really attached to being an expert at front end and feels skill atrophying then maybe it really isn't a fit. I can relate to that because I've moved from full stack to more or less back end because keeping up with front end while only touching it every few months is just not very enjoyable. That said, if that's the central issue definitely a lot of the points raised are overblown.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
I don't think the author's skills were atrophying, but they may have been stuck at a certain level. I have Thoughts about that. On the one side: I get it. As a developer you want to - and the industry expect you to - keep learning, always be on the increase, etc. But on the other hand, when you think about it, once the main architecture is put down and the main issues are solved, most software engineering jobs are just repeating the same trick over and over again, copy / paste / edit some names, done. The last part is where you want to end up at as a company, basically; build features end to end in a reasonable time. But it's not what most developers want, they want new challenges, they want to stay in the problem solving domain. I think as a developer you need to accept that a big chunk of your job, and what your employer wants you to do, is kinda boring. It's not solving new problems, it's extending the functionality of an application using existing solutions. And if you're hired as a front-end developer or whatever, the hiring company may not want you for what you can become, but what you already are. And honestly, just trying to find decent developers that don't need to learn your stack is already difficult enough.
- WastingMyTime89 5y ago
  > But on the other hand, when you think about it, once the main architecture is put down and the main issues are solved, most software engineering jobs are just repeating the same trick over and over again, copy / paste / edit some names, done. I don't know. I think it gets less and less true as you get away from web development. The fundamentals stay the same but how they intersect with what you are doing can vary widely. If you want to, you can encounter domain knowledge intersecting with the problems you are trying to solve, different architectures for complexe systems coming with their own set of constraints, different project structures, different ways to deal with end users requirements. I think they are plenty of opportunities to do boring things and plenty to do interesting things.
- danjac 5y ago
  Another problem is that developers will start pushing for solutions in their current job not because it makes sense but because they know they're going to need those skills in their resume in a year or two. The company is left with a React-sized hole (or k8s, or Vue, or whatever) when the developer moves on that they need to fill ASAP, and the cycle continues.
- worker767424 5y ago
  Funny enough, he was a little bitter about being down-leveled, but it looks like that was the right call.
martius 5y ago
My reading is that OP was disappointed that they weren't leveled as senior, yet, they left the company because they were working on the tech they want to be an expert of. It strikes me as a misunderstanding on how career evolution works in these companies (and, I believe, most tech companies). A senior eng will focus less on the pure technical aspects (language, framework, etc), but rather will have the soft skills allowing them to carry larger projects/impact. For instance, with experience, a senior can identify design mistakes early, can weight the value of different solutions based on aspects like time/eng-cost, tech debt, complexity, risk. In a company of the size of Shopify, shifting away from "Rails ERB templates" to a more modern solution definitely require these skills (and also probably way more than 6 months of tenure). They could have proposed this project, tried to get some buy-in and learn new "frontend skills".
treis 5y ago
IMHO there's some red flags here. Shopify is well known and well known as being the biggest Rails company still all in on Rails. It shouldn't have been a surprise that they'd be editing ERB templates. The interviewing process being Rails heavy should have been a giant hint. If they wanted to be all in on React then they should have found a company that's all in on React. I don't really see them as straying too far from their desired focus. Things and technologies change at big companies and developers need to have some flexibility. Learning basics of ERB templating isn't a big ask and it's conceptually similar to all sorts of different templating engines. It also sounds like more front projects were coming and things were going to get better. 5 months is nothing in the grand scheme of things and it's an awfully quick bail. Especially considering the quality of Shopify as a company. If the FAANGs are the Kings of the programming world, Shopify is a Duke or Baron. Eyebrow raising to leave a company like that unless they ended up in a clearly better spot.
jrochkind1 5y ago
I don't even know how we're arguing about whether the job was "really" a "good fit" for the OP or not. They decided it wasn't a good fit, we really want to tell a stranger on the internet that we know better than they that a job they spent 5 months in was a good fit for them after all? I am finding this whole thread very weird!

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

I don't think the author's skills were atrophying, but they may have been stuck at a certain level. I have Thoughts about that. On the one side: I get it. As a developer you want to - and the industry expect you to - keep learning, always be on the increase, etc. But on the other hand, when you think about it, once the main architecture is put down and the main issues are solved, most software engineering jobs are just repeating the same trick over and over again, copy / paste / edit some names, done. The last part is where you want to end up at as a company, basically; build features end to end in a reasonable time. But it's not what most developers want, they want new challenges, they want to stay in the problem solving domain. I think as a developer you need to accept that a big chunk of your job, and what your employer wants you to do, is kinda boring. It's not solving new problems, it's extending the functionality of an application using existing solutions. And if you're hired as a front-end developer or whatever, the hiring company may not want you for what you can become, but what you already are. And honestly, just trying to find decent developers that don't need to learn your stack is already difficult enough.

WastingMyTime89 5y ago
> But on the other hand, when you think about it, once the main architecture is put down and the main issues are solved, most software engineering jobs are just repeating the same trick over and over again, copy / paste / edit some names, done. I don't know. I think it gets less and less true as you get away from web development. The fundamentals stay the same but how they intersect with what you are doing can vary widely. If you want to, you can encounter domain knowledge intersecting with the problems you are trying to solve, different architectures for complexe systems coming with their own set of constraints, different project structures, different ways to deal with end users requirements. I think they are plenty of opportunities to do boring things and plenty to do interesting things.
danjac 5y ago
Another problem is that developers will start pushing for solutions in their current job not because it makes sense but because they know they're going to need those skills in their resume in a year or two. The company is left with a React-sized hole (or k8s, or Vue, or whatever) when the developer moves on that they need to fill ASAP, and the cycle continues.
worker767424 5y ago
Funny enough, he was a little bitter about being down-leveled, but it looks like that was the right call.

martius 5y ago

My reading is that OP was disappointed that they weren't leveled as senior, yet, they left the company because they were working on the tech they want to be an expert of. It strikes me as a misunderstanding on how career evolution works in these companies (and, I believe, most tech companies). A senior eng will focus less on the pure technical aspects (language, framework, etc), but rather will have the soft skills allowing them to carry larger projects/impact. For instance, with experience, a senior can identify design mistakes early, can weight the value of different solutions based on aspects like time/eng-cost, tech debt, complexity, risk. In a company of the size of Shopify, shifting away from "Rails ERB templates" to a more modern solution definitely require these skills (and also probably way more than 6 months of tenure). They could have proposed this project, tried to get some buy-in and learn new "frontend skills".

treis 5y ago

IMHO there's some red flags here. Shopify is well known and well known as being the biggest Rails company still all in on Rails. It shouldn't have been a surprise that they'd be editing ERB templates. The interviewing process being Rails heavy should have been a giant hint. If they wanted to be all in on React then they should have found a company that's all in on React. I don't really see them as straying too far from their desired focus. Things and technologies change at big companies and developers need to have some flexibility. Learning basics of ERB templating isn't a big ask and it's conceptually similar to all sorts of different templating engines. It also sounds like more front projects were coming and things were going to get better. 5 months is nothing in the grand scheme of things and it's an awfully quick bail. Especially considering the quality of Shopify as a company. If the FAANGs are the Kings of the programming world, Shopify is a Duke or Baron. Eyebrow raising to leave a company like that unless they ended up in a clearly better spot.

jrochkind1 5y ago

I don't even know how we're arguing about whether the job was "really" a "good fit" for the OP or not. They decided it wasn't a good fit, we really want to tell a stranger on the internet that we know better than they that a job they spent 5 months in was a good fit for them after all? I am finding this whole thread very weird!