3 ms·

Pretending to like? It's not like these were shallow conversations at a party... He lived with them and dated them for years while acting as an agent of the sta

by rkk3 5y ago

Pretending to like? It's not like these were shallow conversations at a party... He lived with them and dated them for years while acting as an agent of the state. That is pretty unfathomable violation...

radford-neal 5y ago
I'd agree that the state should not be infiltrating non-violent activist groups. But the fact that he was an agent of the state doesn't seem to be the focus here. "He wasn't the man I thought he was" is the sort of thing that could be said after practically every breakup of a relationship. Some times more than others, but trying to put some sort of line past which it is rape is not feasible - not, that is, if you are in favour of the rule of law, rather than people being sent to prison based on personal moral judgements of juries or judges about exactly how disgusted they are about someone's behaviour.
- rkk3 5y ago
  > if you are in favour of the rule of law, rather than people being sent to prison based on personal moral judgements of juries They clearly violated their civil rights repeatedly over a period of years. They were already found liable for damages and paid out millions of dollars. Illicit activities & sex happen in undercover work... It's much more disturbing that the organizations sanctioned running operations that included having a 3 year plus romantic relationships, fathering children and proposing marriage... with non-violent activists... rape is not the right charge and shouldn't be shoehorned but that is such a gross violation and misuse of powers that should face criminal punishment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_undercover_policing_relationships_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_undercover_policing_relatio...
- drcongo 5y ago
  "He wasn't the man I thought he was" is a misjudgement by party A and doesn't seem at all equivalent to party B actively deceiving someone by pretending to be an entirely different person with a different name, back story, interests, profession and so on, and then having sex with them. It makes me feel queasy that anyone would think they're even in the same ballpark.
fsckboy 5y ago
or, relationships and sex are normal things that emerge from humans socializing with each other, regardless of what brought them together.
- crtasm 5y ago
  It's not socialising if the other person has been sent to spy on you and is being paid to lie to you.

by rkk3 5y ago

radford-neal 5y ago

I'd agree that the state should not be infiltrating non-violent activist groups. But the fact that he was an agent of the state doesn't seem to be the focus here. "He wasn't the man I thought he was" is the sort of thing that could be said after practically every breakup of a relationship. Some times more than others, but trying to put some sort of line past which it is rape is not feasible - not, that is, if you are in favour of the rule of law, rather than people being sent to prison based on personal moral judgements of juries or judges about exactly how disgusted they are about someone's behaviour.

rkk3 5y ago
> if you are in favour of the rule of law, rather than people being sent to prison based on personal moral judgements of juries They clearly violated their civil rights repeatedly over a period of years. They were already found liable for damages and paid out millions of dollars. Illicit activities & sex happen in undercover work... It's much more disturbing that the organizations sanctioned running operations that included having a 3 year plus romantic relationships, fathering children and proposing marriage... with non-violent activists... rape is not the right charge and shouldn't be shoehorned but that is such a gross violation and misuse of powers that should face criminal punishment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_undercover_policing_relationships_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_undercover_policing_relatio...
drcongo 5y ago
"He wasn't the man I thought he was" is a misjudgement by party A and doesn't seem at all equivalent to party B actively deceiving someone by pretending to be an entirely different person with a different name, back story, interests, profession and so on, and then having sex with them. It makes me feel queasy that anyone would think they're even in the same ballpark.

fsckboy 5y ago

or, relationships and sex are normal things that emerge from humans socializing with each other, regardless of what brought them together.

crtasm 5y ago
It's not socialising if the other person has been sent to spy on you and is being paid to lie to you.