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> If you want people to let you into their homes, you have to make sure you don't keep lighting fires and smashing up their furniture. You analogy is flawed. I

> If you want people to let you into their homes, you have to make sure you don't keep lighting fires and smashing up their furniture. You analogy is flawed. In the case of IP blacklisting, it is an intermediary preventing legitimate email delivery on shaky ground. My correspondent want the mail; yet she never got to see it. This is censorship.

autoexec 5y ago
> it is an intermediary preventing legitimate email delivery on shaky ground. The 3rd party hosting the blacklist is an intermediary, but the network operator on the receiving end isn't. They still have total control over what lists to subscribe to, how they'll be used, and what to block or allow. That's not censorship. As a network operator it is there right to block or accept whatever traffic they want. If you, as a customer/end user don't like how they run their network you're free to operate your own or choose to give your money to someone else.
- derekzhouzhen 5y ago
  So you think as long as the user can choose to leave, the platform is no an intermediary. I strongly disagree. Even if the user theoretically can choose, we have to consider the asymmetric information, high switching cost, and monopoly power that are so prevalent nowadays. I choose not to use the big email providers, but most people can't do the same.
  - autoexec 5y ago
    > So you think as long as the user can choose to leave, the platform is no an intermediary. I strongly disagree. Even if the user theoretically can choose, we have to consider the asymmetric information, high switching cost, and monopoly power that are so prevalent nowadays. Some platforms rise to that level I think. Youtube is one example. Email doesn't really have that problem. Anyone can install an email server, and there are a huge amount of options (many of them "free") for those who don't want to run their own mail servers. Email is still a competitive space with different companies offering specialized services targeting people who want privacy, low cost, mass mailing capability, tracking features, etc. Email itself has a ton of competing communication protocols. There are plenty of folks who prefer to communicate over chat or by text. You can even keep an old email address and forward anything sent there to another one or use a separate email address for sending, but get replies at your old address. Switching email addresses is about as easy as it gets.

autoexec 5y ago

> it is an intermediary preventing legitimate email delivery on shaky ground. The 3rd party hosting the blacklist is an intermediary, but the network operator on the receiving end isn't. They still have total control over what lists to subscribe to, how they'll be used, and what to block or allow. That's not censorship. As a network operator it is there right to block or accept whatever traffic they want. If you, as a customer/end user don't like how they run their network you're free to operate your own or choose to give your money to someone else.

derekzhouzhen 5y ago
So you think as long as the user can choose to leave, the platform is no an intermediary. I strongly disagree. Even if the user theoretically can choose, we have to consider the asymmetric information, high switching cost, and monopoly power that are so prevalent nowadays. I choose not to use the big email providers, but most people can't do the same.
- autoexec 5y ago
  > So you think as long as the user can choose to leave, the platform is no an intermediary. I strongly disagree. Even if the user theoretically can choose, we have to consider the asymmetric information, high switching cost, and monopoly power that are so prevalent nowadays. Some platforms rise to that level I think. Youtube is one example. Email doesn't really have that problem. Anyone can install an email server, and there are a huge amount of options (many of them "free") for those who don't want to run their own mail servers. Email is still a competitive space with different companies offering specialized services targeting people who want privacy, low cost, mass mailing capability, tracking features, etc. Email itself has a ton of competing communication protocols. There are plenty of folks who prefer to communicate over chat or by text. You can even keep an old email address and forward anything sent there to another one or use a separate email address for sending, but get replies at your old address. Switching email addresses is about as easy as it gets.