7 ms·

> How exactly did it happen in /r/antiwork? Casuals found it. You know — the people who use the internet to laugh at funny memes rather than treating every post

by belval 5y ago

> How exactly did it happen in /r/antiwork? Casuals found it. You know — the people who use the internet to laugh at funny memes rather than treating every post as a blow in a grand ideological struggle. That's the very force of the reddit hivemind. I have no interest in /r/antiwork nor their ideologies, but they kept popping up on /r/all, so they get a constant influx of people aligned with the reddit mean opinion, which in turn changes the original community. As long as the popularity of a subreddit is below a certain threshold, it gets to foster specific discussions on whatever fringe ideology you are interested in, but it never stays that way for long.

StriverGuy 5y ago
Off topic, but my tin foil hat theory of r/antiwork is that this a massive psy-op being pushed by some other nation state. Reddits algo easily helps snowball and propagate ideas that are promoted by users within the sub. It is the perfect playbook to destabilize labor markets in a foreign country.
- the_snooze 5y ago
  It's possible, but I don't consider it plausible at my current level of understanding. My null hypothesis is that there are some really loud people on the internet who like to talk loudly about their unpopular ideas. And they're unaware of how deeply unpopular those ideas are until their little corner of the internet suddenly gets mainstream public attention.
  - StriverGuy 5y ago
    So my thinking is the origin story of the sub is definitely organic. However, it is an easy win for a bad actor to push the narrative that a handful of loud voices are shouting about for their own interests.
    - achenet 5y ago
      Occam's razor. The parent comment is very likely right, it's probably just angry people posting on the internet.
- MSFT_Edging 5y ago
  Perhaps, if you consider, there is genuine feeling of resentment among a large portion of the population trying to survive, and that resentment stems from actual material conditions in the labor market. And a community focused on that could garner actual popularity?
- pydry 5y ago
  How did the foreign nation state convince reddit to put /r/antiwork in /r/all?
wsb_mod2 5y ago
> but it never stays that way for long It can stay that way, but it's a hard decision to untick these boxes: https://i.imgur.com/E2G9SUh.png https://i.imgur.com/E2G9SUh.png Too early and the sub dies, too late, and you'll wish it died.
- belval 5y ago
  TIL, I didn't know that reddit allowed mods to opt-out of /r/all.
  - jasode 5y ago
    The new option happened around 2014-07: https://old.reddit.com/r/changelog/comments/2a32sq/experimental_reddit_change_subreddits_may_now/ https://old.reddit.com/r/changelog/comments/2a32sq/experimen... Apparently, there were some subreddits that got bombarded with unwanted comments which prompted the new feature.
    - wsb_mod2 5y ago
      I don't think most moderators don't know this option exists. It's located on a page that you only visit once to set up the subreddit, or to make large subreddit changes. (On old reddit, not sure about new reddit) To Reddit's credit, they have been adding new features over the years to help separate communities and ensure they are somewhat able to maintain their culture. E.g. Crowd Control which limits the posting / commenting abilities of individual users based on their history or other heuristics.
      - Dracophoenix 5y ago
        >E.g. Crowd Control which limits the posting / commenting abilities of individual users based on their history or other heuristics. Aren't you of the opinion this could be misused?
        wsb_mod2 5y ago
BitwiseFool 5y ago
>"I have no interest in /r/antiwork nor their ideologies, but they kept popping up on /r/all" The /r/popular and /r/all pages are intensively manipulated by a constellation of leftist activists. Have you ever noticed just how often the same "screenshots of tweets" submissions from people like AOC end up being reposted ad nauseum across several subreddits that basically share the same message - and most importantly - moderators and power users?
- wsb_mod2 5y ago
  The site itself leans left, I wouldn't call that manipulation, simply people voting on content they like. However, you are onto something. Almost every single post on r/MurderedByAOC is made by u/LrlOurPresident, and those posts hit the front page on a nearly daily basis.
  - iso1210 5y ago
    The world itself leans left - at least compared with the US Left/Right divide, and younger people (who are more likely to be on reddit) lean left. Obviously the site itself leans left.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      It's pretty clear from things like Bernie, the rise of antiwork, etc, etc, the site doesn't exactly align with the mainstream DNC talking points nearly as nicely as the front page and popular subs would make you think. If the NFL craps astroturfing all over the online sports community that still constitutes manipulation even if the occupants of the sites in question were marginally more predisposed to those ideas than the general population. What the mainstream left does to Reddit with their astroturfing is no different.
    - achenet 5y ago
      s/The world/The educated, english speaking westerners who post on reddit, generally found in Western Europe and North America/ I'm not sure Asia, Africa, and the Middle East are hugely fond of progressive politics.
kvuj 5y ago
> That's the very force of the reddit hivemind. I have no interest in /r/antiwork nor their ideologies, but they kept popping up on /r/all, so they get a constant influx of people aligned with the reddit mean opinion, which in turn changes the original community. That's what I like about 4chan. In a sea of ungodly acidic garbage lies a golden heart of contrarianism. The posters will argue for a side one day, and 2 hours later will vehemently adopt opposite arguments. Some of the best leftist arguments I have ever read came from /pol/. 4chan argues for the sake of arguing, and I think that is absolutely beautiful in today's environment of everyone taking everything so seriously.
- helloooooooo 5y ago
  It probably has to do with the post incentives. On Reddit, if you get downvoted into oblivion, your post disappears even if you get thousands of comments. On 4Chan, the more active the post, the more it gets bumped to the top. So being inflammatory on one makes your post disappear, and on the other it sends it to the top of the feed.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    This explains Twitter too. Even before the infamous trend-boosting algorithms get involved, being more controversial gets you more retweets and more chances to be seen. Tumblr used to be the same way and its users had similarly controversial/aggressive politics.
  - Levitz 5y ago
    Reddit is grossly overmoderated. You have a vote system that enforces a hivemind by itself, on top of a normal moderation system that deletes an enormous amount of content, on top of automated moderation banning posts if you use this or that word, on top of a shadowban system on top of a global content policy system. The result is that only stuff that the majority of users allow will get displayed.
    - OmegaPG 5y ago
      > Reddit is grossly overmoderated I think bigger problem is poor moderation. Most of the mods are driven by some agenda and even propaganda. Instead of focusing on quality, they focus on how their subreddit content can be aligned to their agenda. Any user who doesn't comply, gets banned. Since roughly only 1% user actively engage in a subreddit, update macha end with Eco chamber.
AlexCoventry 5y ago
> it never stays that way for long. I'm seeing this happen now, with r/streamentry.
JSavageOne 5y ago
Perhaps "casuals" are simply a product of the content they consume, which is determined by the algorithms of the platforms they consume. Maybe there's something about Reddit's algorithm and mechanics that predisposes it to low effort neutered meme content. After all, the default Reddit homepage subreddits are all trash (by the way this isn't unique to Reddit, same goes for say Youtube). This is why we need platforms where users actually own their data, and can customize their own algorithms and UIs (ie. what web3 hopes to solve).
swayvil 5y ago
Reddit is a powerful tool for automatically dumbingdown/nullifying any ideology that deviates from the mainstream. Simply by exposing conversations to the greater mob. No fascist master plan required. It's like removing the fence from around a garden.

by belval 5y ago

StriverGuy 5y ago

Off topic, but my tin foil hat theory of r/antiwork is that this a massive psy-op being pushed by some other nation state. Reddits algo easily helps snowball and propagate ideas that are promoted by users within the sub. It is the perfect playbook to destabilize labor markets in a foreign country.

the_snooze 5y ago
It's possible, but I don't consider it plausible at my current level of understanding. My null hypothesis is that there are some really loud people on the internet who like to talk loudly about their unpopular ideas. And they're unaware of how deeply unpopular those ideas are until their little corner of the internet suddenly gets mainstream public attention.
- StriverGuy 5y ago
  So my thinking is the origin story of the sub is definitely organic. However, it is an easy win for a bad actor to push the narrative that a handful of loud voices are shouting about for their own interests.
  - achenet 5y ago
    Occam's razor. The parent comment is very likely right, it's probably just angry people posting on the internet.
MSFT_Edging 5y ago
Perhaps, if you consider, there is genuine feeling of resentment among a large portion of the population trying to survive, and that resentment stems from actual material conditions in the labor market. And a community focused on that could garner actual popularity?
pydry 5y ago
How did the foreign nation state convince reddit to put /r/antiwork in /r/all?

wsb_mod2 5y ago

> but it never stays that way for long It can stay that way, but it's a hard decision to untick these boxes: https://i.imgur.com/E2G9SUh.png https://i.imgur.com/E2G9SUh.png Too early and the sub dies, too late, and you'll wish it died.

belval 5y ago
TIL, I didn't know that reddit allowed mods to opt-out of /r/all.
- jasode 5y ago
  The new option happened around 2014-07: https://old.reddit.com/r/changelog/comments/2a32sq/experimental_reddit_change_subreddits_may_now/ https://old.reddit.com/r/changelog/comments/2a32sq/experimen... Apparently, there were some subreddits that got bombarded with unwanted comments which prompted the new feature.
  - wsb_mod2 5y ago
    I don't think most moderators don't know this option exists. It's located on a page that you only visit once to set up the subreddit, or to make large subreddit changes. (On old reddit, not sure about new reddit) To Reddit's credit, they have been adding new features over the years to help separate communities and ensure they are somewhat able to maintain their culture. E.g. Crowd Control which limits the posting / commenting abilities of individual users based on their history or other heuristics.
    - Dracophoenix 5y ago
      >E.g. Crowd Control which limits the posting / commenting abilities of individual users based on their history or other heuristics. Aren't you of the opinion this could be misused?
      - wsb_mod2 5y ago

BitwiseFool 5y ago

>"I have no interest in /r/antiwork nor their ideologies, but they kept popping up on /r/all" The /r/popular and /r/all pages are intensively manipulated by a constellation of leftist activists. Have you ever noticed just how often the same "screenshots of tweets" submissions from people like AOC end up being reposted ad nauseum across several subreddits that basically share the same message - and most importantly - moderators and power users?

wsb_mod2 5y ago
The site itself leans left, I wouldn't call that manipulation, simply people voting on content they like. However, you are onto something. Almost every single post on r/MurderedByAOC is made by u/LrlOurPresident, and those posts hit the front page on a nearly daily basis.
- iso1210 5y ago
  The world itself leans left - at least compared with the US Left/Right divide, and younger people (who are more likely to be on reddit) lean left. Obviously the site itself leans left.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    It's pretty clear from things like Bernie, the rise of antiwork, etc, etc, the site doesn't exactly align with the mainstream DNC talking points nearly as nicely as the front page and popular subs would make you think. If the NFL craps astroturfing all over the online sports community that still constitutes manipulation even if the occupants of the sites in question were marginally more predisposed to those ideas than the general population. What the mainstream left does to Reddit with their astroturfing is no different.
  - achenet 5y ago
    s/The world/The educated, english speaking westerners who post on reddit, generally found in Western Europe and North America/ I'm not sure Asia, Africa, and the Middle East are hugely fond of progressive politics.

kvuj 5y ago

> That's the very force of the reddit hivemind. I have no interest in /r/antiwork nor their ideologies, but they kept popping up on /r/all, so they get a constant influx of people aligned with the reddit mean opinion, which in turn changes the original community. That's what I like about 4chan. In a sea of ungodly acidic garbage lies a golden heart of contrarianism. The posters will argue for a side one day, and 2 hours later will vehemently adopt opposite arguments. Some of the best leftist arguments I have ever read came from /pol/. 4chan argues for the sake of arguing, and I think that is absolutely beautiful in today's environment of everyone taking everything so seriously.

helloooooooo 5y ago
It probably has to do with the post incentives. On Reddit, if you get downvoted into oblivion, your post disappears even if you get thousands of comments. On 4Chan, the more active the post, the more it gets bumped to the top. So being inflammatory on one makes your post disappear, and on the other it sends it to the top of the feed.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  This explains Twitter too. Even before the infamous trend-boosting algorithms get involved, being more controversial gets you more retweets and more chances to be seen. Tumblr used to be the same way and its users had similarly controversial/aggressive politics.
- Levitz 5y ago
  Reddit is grossly overmoderated. You have a vote system that enforces a hivemind by itself, on top of a normal moderation system that deletes an enormous amount of content, on top of automated moderation banning posts if you use this or that word, on top of a shadowban system on top of a global content policy system. The result is that only stuff that the majority of users allow will get displayed.
  - OmegaPG 5y ago
    > Reddit is grossly overmoderated I think bigger problem is poor moderation. Most of the mods are driven by some agenda and even propaganda. Instead of focusing on quality, they focus on how their subreddit content can be aligned to their agenda. Any user who doesn't comply, gets banned. Since roughly only 1% user actively engage in a subreddit, update macha end with Eco chamber.

AlexCoventry 5y ago

> it never stays that way for long. I'm seeing this happen now, with r/streamentry.

JSavageOne 5y ago

Perhaps "casuals" are simply a product of the content they consume, which is determined by the algorithms of the platforms they consume. Maybe there's something about Reddit's algorithm and mechanics that predisposes it to low effort neutered meme content. After all, the default Reddit homepage subreddits are all trash (by the way this isn't unique to Reddit, same goes for say Youtube). This is why we need platforms where users actually own their data, and can customize their own algorithms and UIs (ie. what web3 hopes to solve).

swayvil 5y ago

Reddit is a powerful tool for automatically dumbingdown/nullifying any ideology that deviates from the mainstream. Simply by exposing conversations to the greater mob. No fascist master plan required. It's like removing the fence from around a garden.