7 ms·

The insight around the "Life Story" interview round is good. It helps interviewees feel like they are being seen as whole people and, at least in the author's v

The insight around the "Life Story" interview round is good. It helps interviewees feel like they are being seen as whole people and, at least in the author's view, helps filter out jerks from a large org. Seems like something other large companies could/should adopt. Getting down-levelled through the interview process due to YOE, which is known before interviews even start, indicates some failures by the recruiters. Recruiters should've been able to set proper expectations up front. I bet being down-levelled and leaving within a year are very strongly correlated and cost the company a lot.

joshcsimmons 5y ago
Yes - would like to see some stats on attrition among down leveled hires. I suspect you’re right.
taway99121 5y ago
Posting anon for obvious reasons. It can get really bad. I joined a Series A startup. Me and all my peer engineering directors got down-leveled to entry-level titles within a month. Product Mangers, Sales People, others got up-leveled from Entry Level --> Manager --> Director --> Sr. Director. The company is on a dying breath, because these shenanigans caused so much acrimony. Who the fuck cares about a company that fucks you over a month into joining the company? Half the engineers were working on side projects and the company has basically died.
- jack_riminton 5y ago
  What sort of CTO would allow this?
  - taway99121 5y ago
    two lessons learned 1. check linked in. if you a dozen of kids out of undergrad in Marketing/Product/Sales/Strategy/Finance with Director+ titles a year or two out of college....and others out of industry with entry level titles, RUN. There is obvious inequity. You wont be able to motivate people to work hard with such a setup. 2. avoid companies with split executive offices. Our engineering group was 95% on the East coast while the "business" office was in SF. CEO/CFO/CPO/CRO all in SF. CTO on east coast.
    - jack_riminton 5y ago
      Holy hell, red flags abound Lemme guess the CEO/CFO/CPO/CRO all come from wealthy backgrounds and post inspiring tweets/linkedins whilst the company piledrives into the ground?
- multiplegeorges 5y ago
  > Me and all my peer engineering directors got down-leveled to entry-level titles within a month. Wow, they demoted you post-hire!? Yeah, I'd immediately start interviewing elsewhere.
  - taway99121 5y ago
    my mistake was staying and thinking it would be fixed. It didnt get fixed for three years. By then, out-of-undergrad business team members were already Senior Directors while PhD engineers with 15yrs continued to be entry level. the result of the changes was a half-dead demotivated engineering team that never revived. titles were fixed three years in, but it was too late. business teams had moved onto bigger and better jobs by then. good luck trying to get hyper-growth when you've screwed over all the engineers
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
kache_ 5y ago
I've had that happen to me with Coinbase, down-leveled from senior to intermediate halfway through the process (in no part due to my performance on the screen). Based on their comms, it seemed to have happened for budget reasons: they exhausted their "senior head" budget. Either that, or it was a hardball negotiation tactic (which lost them a head) Leveling is simply a byproduct of your alternatives, not your experience or skills. I bet you that higher paying companies like Stripe/Robinhood have a more even spread, while others need to level people as senior to compete. In my last interview bout, I've had some companies come back with senior leveling _after_ I told them I had competing offers. The blatant reality of "leveling" being tied to your negotiation prowess and not your engineering skill shocked even myself, as cynical as I am. (Edit: I should say that I had a great experience interviewing at Coinbase, and recommend others to do the same)
myth_drannon 5y ago
It's not that easy to filter out jerks just from that interview. "Life Story" is more about cultural fit, in Shopify case they used to select mostly youngish, hipsters candidates and filter out family/middle aged candidates.

joshcsimmons 5y ago

Yes - would like to see some stats on attrition among down leveled hires. I suspect you’re right.

taway99121 5y ago

Posting anon for obvious reasons. It can get really bad. I joined a Series A startup. Me and all my peer engineering directors got down-leveled to entry-level titles within a month. Product Mangers, Sales People, others got up-leveled from Entry Level --> Manager --> Director --> Sr. Director. The company is on a dying breath, because these shenanigans caused so much acrimony. Who the fuck cares about a company that fucks you over a month into joining the company? Half the engineers were working on side projects and the company has basically died.

jack_riminton 5y ago
What sort of CTO would allow this?
- taway99121 5y ago
  two lessons learned 1. check linked in. if you a dozen of kids out of undergrad in Marketing/Product/Sales/Strategy/Finance with Director+ titles a year or two out of college....and others out of industry with entry level titles, RUN. There is obvious inequity. You wont be able to motivate people to work hard with such a setup. 2. avoid companies with split executive offices. Our engineering group was 95% on the East coast while the "business" office was in SF. CEO/CFO/CPO/CRO all in SF. CTO on east coast.
  - jack_riminton 5y ago
    Holy hell, red flags abound Lemme guess the CEO/CFO/CPO/CRO all come from wealthy backgrounds and post inspiring tweets/linkedins whilst the company piledrives into the ground?
multiplegeorges 5y ago
> Me and all my peer engineering directors got down-leveled to entry-level titles within a month. Wow, they demoted you post-hire!? Yeah, I'd immediately start interviewing elsewhere.
- taway99121 5y ago
  my mistake was staying and thinking it would be fixed. It didnt get fixed for three years. By then, out-of-undergrad business team members were already Senior Directors while PhD engineers with 15yrs continued to be entry level. the result of the changes was a half-dead demotivated engineering team that never revived. titles were fixed three years in, but it was too late. business teams had moved onto bigger and better jobs by then. good luck trying to get hyper-growth when you've screwed over all the engineers
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

kache_ 5y ago

I've had that happen to me with Coinbase, down-leveled from senior to intermediate halfway through the process (in no part due to my performance on the screen). Based on their comms, it seemed to have happened for budget reasons: they exhausted their "senior head" budget. Either that, or it was a hardball negotiation tactic (which lost them a head) Leveling is simply a byproduct of your alternatives, not your experience or skills. I bet you that higher paying companies like Stripe/Robinhood have a more even spread, while others need to level people as senior to compete. In my last interview bout, I've had some companies come back with senior leveling _after_ I told them I had competing offers. The blatant reality of "leveling" being tied to your negotiation prowess and not your engineering skill shocked even myself, as cynical as I am. (Edit: I should say that I had a great experience interviewing at Coinbase, and recommend others to do the same)

myth_drannon 5y ago

It's not that easy to filter out jerks just from that interview. "Life Story" is more about cultural fit, in Shopify case they used to select mostly youngish, hipsters candidates and filter out family/middle aged candidates.