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I see a problem with the Facebook, the Microsoft, the Epic store with all different rules and payment methods. Having them to cross a common threshold is better

by myspy 5y ago

I see a problem with the Facebook, the Microsoft, the Epic store with all different rules and payment methods. Having them to cross a common threshold is better for me as an end user.

causi 5y ago
Then use the common threshold. I'm sure Epic would happy to keep a version of their games on the App Store with all prices inflated by thirty percent.
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  Their saga with the Play Store shows that that isn’t the case.[0] Once you allow third parties to use different stores, and those stores aren’t as restrictive, you bet businesses are gonna move there. The whole “if you like the App Store, just don’t use the others” doesn’t work in practice. See also: the whole Steam vs Epic issue on Windows. Should Apple open their store? Sure. But it’s not as cut and dry as people make it out to be. [0]: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/how-to-install-fortnite-on-android-devices https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/how-to-install...
  - causi 5y ago
    Apple would not let them charge one price for App Store payments and another price for external payments.
    - dessant 5y ago
      A store cannot dictate how much you charge for a product at a different retailer, and they have no right to interfere with your business activity, and the agreements you have with a different distributor.
      - Diggsey 5y ago
        Apple can and does do this.
        dessant 5y ago
        Products on the App Store can be sold at a different price, companies often do this to recoup some of that 30% App Store commission. Edit: this is a fact, though feel free to downvote. Apple tries to hide this from the user by not letting publishers mention that the app or service is cheaper when purchased outside of the App Store or Mac App Store.
        causi 5y ago
        I must be misunderstanding this. Since Apple doesn't support sideloading, how is any product offered both on the App Store and somewhere else, let alone for a different price?
        scarface74 5y ago
        You can buy subscriptions outside of the App Store and still use the app.
        dessant 5y ago
        Some apps are sold for a different price on the App Store and the Mac App Store, than if you'd buy it directly from the developer or a store on a different platform. On iOS you can obviously only buy an app on the App Store, with some exceptions.
      - goblin89 5y ago
        > A store cannot dictate how much you charge for a product at a different retailer Isn’t this exactly what is happening everywhere you see “we price match!” or “low price guarantee”? Platforms can and do require sellers to provide the lowest price, and take whatever measures including offing violators from the platform if this means they suffer losses every time a buyer does their research. Not even mentioning exclusivity clauses, which are very much legal and very much dictate your relationship with other distributors. I’m not saying Apple is doing that, but there are so many precedents that I doubt this practice is illegal. > they have no right to interfere with your business activity If you choose to do business with them, they are literally taking part in your business activity. No one made you sign the contract (presumably you have done so in expectation of benefitting from the platform, which would attract users to you since its owner develops products that users want). Calling this “interference” is nonsensical.
    - scarface74 5y ago
      Spotify did exactly this before they abandoned in app purchases. I believe Google does this for YouTube Premium. Apple did have that policy for less than a year over 10 years ago.
  - yorwba 5y ago
    > The whole “if you like the App Store, just don’t use the others” doesn’t work in practice. Why not? Isn't that the status quo? If you like the App Store, you buy an iPhone and don't use any of the others. If you like F-Droid, you get an Android phone, put LineageOS on it and don't use any of the others. Or if you like multiple Android stores, you can do that too. Allowing multiple stores on Apple devices just reduces the cost relative to the "buy a new phone" solution.
    - judge2020 5y ago
      They're saying that when what's being asked (alternative stores without paying % cut to OS vendor) doesn't solve this at all, as Epic has its own store on Windows but gamers absolutely hate it since Steam is so much better[0], yet Epic purchases exclusivity rights to new games; it only has marketshare because they give away free games and Fortnite requires it. 0: https://redd.it/b94c4i https://redd.it/b94c4i
- myspy 5y ago
  There won't be any, it will be either go to the epic store or don't use our product. For certain apps it will be a pain in the ass. And to be honest, this is why I buy Apple not Android. I don't want to think about it. There is more to it than only getting apps. How about family sharing or checking what the minors in my family are downloading? And if they do it on the App Store I want to see the break up of Nintendo, Sony and Xbox games stores too.
- koenneker 5y ago
  No they wouldn't. They already pulled Rocket League from the steam store[1] after purchasing their developer. There is no reason they would treat ios any different [1]https://store.steampowered.com/app/252950/Rocket_League/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/252950/Rocket_League/
  - terafo 5y ago
    Steam developer agreement forbids such practice. You can't set base price of your game any higher than in other stores. And, to be fair, situation isn't as dire as you described it, you can still download and play Rocket League with the latest update in Steam if you have it on your account.

by myspy 5y ago

I see a problem with the Facebook, the Microsoft, the Epic store with all different rules and payment methods. Having them to cross a common threshold is better for me as an end user.

causi 5y ago

Then use the common threshold. I'm sure Epic would happy to keep a version of their games on the App Store with all prices inflated by thirty percent.

colejohnson66 5y ago
Their saga with the Play Store shows that that isn’t the case.[0] Once you allow third parties to use different stores, and those stores aren’t as restrictive, you bet businesses are gonna move there. The whole “if you like the App Store, just don’t use the others” doesn’t work in practice. See also: the whole Steam vs Epic issue on Windows. Should Apple open their store? Sure. But it’s not as cut and dry as people make it out to be. [0]: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/how-to-install-fortnite-on-android-devices https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/how-to-install...
- causi 5y ago
  Apple would not let them charge one price for App Store payments and another price for external payments.
  - dessant 5y ago
    A store cannot dictate how much you charge for a product at a different retailer, and they have no right to interfere with your business activity, and the agreements you have with a different distributor.
    - Diggsey 5y ago
      Apple can and does do this.
      - dessant 5y ago
        Products on the App Store can be sold at a different price, companies often do this to recoup some of that 30% App Store commission. Edit: this is a fact, though feel free to downvote. Apple tries to hide this from the user by not letting publishers mention that the app or service is cheaper when purchased outside of the App Store or Mac App Store.
        causi 5y ago
        I must be misunderstanding this. Since Apple doesn't support sideloading, how is any product offered both on the App Store and somewhere else, let alone for a different price?
        scarface74 5y ago
        You can buy subscriptions outside of the App Store and still use the app.
        dessant 5y ago
        Some apps are sold for a different price on the App Store and the Mac App Store, than if you'd buy it directly from the developer or a store on a different platform. On iOS you can obviously only buy an app on the App Store, with some exceptions.
    - goblin89 5y ago
      > A store cannot dictate how much you charge for a product at a different retailer Isn’t this exactly what is happening everywhere you see “we price match!” or “low price guarantee”? Platforms can and do require sellers to provide the lowest price, and take whatever measures including offing violators from the platform if this means they suffer losses every time a buyer does their research. Not even mentioning exclusivity clauses, which are very much legal and very much dictate your relationship with other distributors. I’m not saying Apple is doing that, but there are so many precedents that I doubt this practice is illegal. > they have no right to interfere with your business activity If you choose to do business with them, they are literally taking part in your business activity. No one made you sign the contract (presumably you have done so in expectation of benefitting from the platform, which would attract users to you since its owner develops products that users want). Calling this “interference” is nonsensical.
  - scarface74 5y ago
    Spotify did exactly this before they abandoned in app purchases. I believe Google does this for YouTube Premium. Apple did have that policy for less than a year over 10 years ago.
- yorwba 5y ago
  > The whole “if you like the App Store, just don’t use the others” doesn’t work in practice. Why not? Isn't that the status quo? If you like the App Store, you buy an iPhone and don't use any of the others. If you like F-Droid, you get an Android phone, put LineageOS on it and don't use any of the others. Or if you like multiple Android stores, you can do that too. Allowing multiple stores on Apple devices just reduces the cost relative to the "buy a new phone" solution.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    They're saying that when what's being asked (alternative stores without paying % cut to OS vendor) doesn't solve this at all, as Epic has its own store on Windows but gamers absolutely hate it since Steam is so much better[0], yet Epic purchases exclusivity rights to new games; it only has marketshare because they give away free games and Fortnite requires it. 0: https://redd.it/b94c4i https://redd.it/b94c4i
myspy 5y ago
There won't be any, it will be either go to the epic store or don't use our product. For certain apps it will be a pain in the ass. And to be honest, this is why I buy Apple not Android. I don't want to think about it. There is more to it than only getting apps. How about family sharing or checking what the minors in my family are downloading? And if they do it on the App Store I want to see the break up of Nintendo, Sony and Xbox games stores too.
koenneker 5y ago
No they wouldn't. They already pulled Rocket League from the steam store[1] after purchasing their developer. There is no reason they would treat ios any different [1]https://store.steampowered.com/app/252950/Rocket_League/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/252950/Rocket_League/
- terafo 5y ago
  Steam developer agreement forbids such practice. You can't set base price of your game any higher than in other stores. And, to be fair, situation isn't as dire as you described it, you can still download and play Rocket League with the latest update in Steam if you have it on your account.