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I'm sure I'm in a minority here, but I think this is good. As a consumer, I want to be warned if there's something that's going to deviate from my system's norm

I'm sure I'm in a minority here, but I think this is good. As a consumer, I want to be warned if there's something that's going to deviate from my system's norms, especially if it could take money from me.

shultays 5y ago
I think there are more than one "norms" when it comes to payment. Here in Sweden you can expect to use klarna or swish if you pay something online, i wouldnt be worried if they forward me those payment services.
- emteycz 5y ago
  The point isn't the payment itself, it's about the management of your purchase. Apple App Store makes you able to easily cancel subscribtions etc - will I be able to cancel a subscribtion paid over klarna or swish as easily as I can cancel these bough through App Store?
999900000999 5y ago
I actually agree with you. On Android, you can side load, but you're warned if you destroy your life via some strange binary you found on the internet, that's on you. On iOS, it's more than a reasonable to say you're using an third-party payment service which is not subject to Apple security. If your tech savvy, you know that this is just fear-mongering on Apple's part. And if you're not tech savvy, then stick to using Apple payments for everything
- ninkendo 5y ago
  > If your tech savvy, you know that this is just fear-mongering on Apple's part. Apple has a policy where every subscription model that is paid for via the app store needs to be one-click cancelable, and from a single system menu that shows all of your subscriptions. That's an actual protection that the app store gives me, the customer, and which I might not receive from other payment processors... so it's not really as much "fear mongering" as you're making it out to be.
  - jamil7 5y ago
    But if you're going through manual app review anyway can they just enforce one-click subscription cancellation like they do with one-click user account deletion?
    - pauldd7 5y ago
      Any app owner can deny that happened and charge you again next month.
      - jamil7 5y ago
        An app owner can already pull all kinds of scams, it's Apple's job to enforce that they don't as much as possible, otherwise why are they taking such a large cut from my apps + 100 dollars per year?
    - ninkendo 5y ago
      It’s not just that it’s one-click, it’s that there’s a single menu in Settings.app that shows you all of your subscriptions, which is helpful in case you forgot you had one, and will show you exactly how much it costs per month, how long a trial period has left, will notify when your trial period is about to end, etc. You can really only do that with third party payment processors if there’s some standard API/protocol/standard for the management of subscriptions… which would be great, but probably isn’t all that feasible in the medium term. It would be great if Apple did that though.
      - jamil7 5y ago
        Yeah, I think it's a great feature of iOS. I think long term there isn't any reason Apple could not offer a way to integrate with the Settings.app, maybe in the similar way that they allow apps to build their own settings page into the Settings.app and make it a requirement of using a third-party payment processor during review.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  It's not just fear mongering though. The risk that Apple will steal your credit card details is exactly zero. With a third-party it's definitely not zero, and there are plenty of people who are suspicious enough to barely trust Apple with their credit card.
  - 999900000999 5y ago
    I personally will probably stick to only using Apple payments, but I respect the right of others to want to use different payment systems. Plus other payment providers, such as PayPal and stripe have their own dispute resolution processes.
- viktorcode 5y ago
  I'm tech savvy and that's exactly why I'll be avoiding third-party payment systems on iOS. But yeah, I don't need an explicit reminder to do that.
FridayoLeary 5y ago
The issue with the app store is there's a clear conflict of interest. Also it restricts users freedom.
- iam-TJ 5y ago
  A 'nit' about your phraseology - not aimed at you but at what has become 'received' usage. I always take care to replace "users freedom" with "OWNERS freedom" in my conversations since so many people seem to have forgotten the distinction. Relatedly, I talk about "computer operators" not "computer users" to try remind people of this important distinction.
  - FridayoLeary 5y ago
    Do you 'own' the OS or do you 'use' it?
    - iam-TJ 5y ago
      In my case, I 'own' it. Building kernel and several core packages from source frequently.
makerofthings 5y ago
I think this is great, too. I just wish all the folk on hackernews that want to trash what apple have built would just go buy an Android phone and leave it alone. If you don’t like the AppStore, don’t buy an iPhone.
- jamil7 5y ago
  > I just wish all the folk on hackernews that want to trash what apple have built It wasn't just Apple though, the value of their platforms is greatly reduced without the work of third-party developers (probably many of whom are on HN) that build software for them.
  - makerofthings 5y ago
    I also have applications in the AppStore (x2). I knew what I was getting into when I built them. Apple are very clear about their pricing and value. If I had to drop either my iOS or Android apps then I would drop the Android apps in a heartbeat, supporting them is a headache.
  - drcongo 5y ago
    But, if you run a fruit and veg stall on the local market, you pay the local council for the pitch. Don't like it, set up in a lay-by by the side of the motorway out of town and see how much that affects your bottom line. Developers didn't build the software for Apple, they built it to sell to consumers and Apple provides them with a pitch on the market for a fee. It's how the world works. Don't like it, go make apps for Pine Phone.
    - modo_mario 5y ago
      >you pay the local council for the pitch Unless you're a huge corporation like Apple which can sidestep a lot of it. Either way tho it seems that analogy boils down to Apple having a monopoly-like position. >for a fee A high one propped up by a lack of competition. >Don't like it, go make apps for Pine Phone. Yeah I support some more push behind projects like that. In the meantime tho I don't think me or many others are going to suddenly love anticompetitive practices.
jimbob45 5y ago
I think most of us agree, we’re just a bit miffed by the unnecessarily incendiary language.

shultays 5y ago

I think there are more than one "norms" when it comes to payment. Here in Sweden you can expect to use klarna or swish if you pay something online, i wouldnt be worried if they forward me those payment services.

emteycz 5y ago
The point isn't the payment itself, it's about the management of your purchase. Apple App Store makes you able to easily cancel subscribtions etc - will I be able to cancel a subscribtion paid over klarna or swish as easily as I can cancel these bough through App Store?

999900000999 5y ago

I actually agree with you. On Android, you can side load, but you're warned if you destroy your life via some strange binary you found on the internet, that's on you. On iOS, it's more than a reasonable to say you're using an third-party payment service which is not subject to Apple security. If your tech savvy, you know that this is just fear-mongering on Apple's part. And if you're not tech savvy, then stick to using Apple payments for everything

ninkendo 5y ago
> If your tech savvy, you know that this is just fear-mongering on Apple's part. Apple has a policy where every subscription model that is paid for via the app store needs to be one-click cancelable, and from a single system menu that shows all of your subscriptions. That's an actual protection that the app store gives me, the customer, and which I might not receive from other payment processors... so it's not really as much "fear mongering" as you're making it out to be.
- jamil7 5y ago
  But if you're going through manual app review anyway can they just enforce one-click subscription cancellation like they do with one-click user account deletion?
  - pauldd7 5y ago
    Any app owner can deny that happened and charge you again next month.
    - jamil7 5y ago
      An app owner can already pull all kinds of scams, it's Apple's job to enforce that they don't as much as possible, otherwise why are they taking such a large cut from my apps + 100 dollars per year?
  - ninkendo 5y ago
    It’s not just that it’s one-click, it’s that there’s a single menu in Settings.app that shows you all of your subscriptions, which is helpful in case you forgot you had one, and will show you exactly how much it costs per month, how long a trial period has left, will notify when your trial period is about to end, etc. You can really only do that with third party payment processors if there’s some standard API/protocol/standard for the management of subscriptions… which would be great, but probably isn’t all that feasible in the medium term. It would be great if Apple did that though.
    - jamil7 5y ago
      Yeah, I think it's a great feature of iOS. I think long term there isn't any reason Apple could not offer a way to integrate with the Settings.app, maybe in the similar way that they allow apps to build their own settings page into the Settings.app and make it a requirement of using a third-party payment processor during review.
Grustaf 5y ago
It's not just fear mongering though. The risk that Apple will steal your credit card details is exactly zero. With a third-party it's definitely not zero, and there are plenty of people who are suspicious enough to barely trust Apple with their credit card.
- 999900000999 5y ago
  I personally will probably stick to only using Apple payments, but I respect the right of others to want to use different payment systems. Plus other payment providers, such as PayPal and stripe have their own dispute resolution processes.
viktorcode 5y ago
I'm tech savvy and that's exactly why I'll be avoiding third-party payment systems on iOS. But yeah, I don't need an explicit reminder to do that.

FridayoLeary 5y ago

The issue with the app store is there's a clear conflict of interest. Also it restricts users freedom.

iam-TJ 5y ago
A 'nit' about your phraseology - not aimed at you but at what has become 'received' usage. I always take care to replace "users freedom" with "OWNERS freedom" in my conversations since so many people seem to have forgotten the distinction. Relatedly, I talk about "computer operators" not "computer users" to try remind people of this important distinction.
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  Do you 'own' the OS or do you 'use' it?
  - iam-TJ 5y ago
    In my case, I 'own' it. Building kernel and several core packages from source frequently.

makerofthings 5y ago

I think this is great, too. I just wish all the folk on hackernews that want to trash what apple have built would just go buy an Android phone and leave it alone. If you don’t like the AppStore, don’t buy an iPhone.

jamil7 5y ago
> I just wish all the folk on hackernews that want to trash what apple have built It wasn't just Apple though, the value of their platforms is greatly reduced without the work of third-party developers (probably many of whom are on HN) that build software for them.
- makerofthings 5y ago
  I also have applications in the AppStore (x2). I knew what I was getting into when I built them. Apple are very clear about their pricing and value. If I had to drop either my iOS or Android apps then I would drop the Android apps in a heartbeat, supporting them is a headache.
- drcongo 5y ago
  But, if you run a fruit and veg stall on the local market, you pay the local council for the pitch. Don't like it, set up in a lay-by by the side of the motorway out of town and see how much that affects your bottom line. Developers didn't build the software for Apple, they built it to sell to consumers and Apple provides them with a pitch on the market for a fee. It's how the world works. Don't like it, go make apps for Pine Phone.
  - modo_mario 5y ago
    >you pay the local council for the pitch Unless you're a huge corporation like Apple which can sidestep a lot of it. Either way tho it seems that analogy boils down to Apple having a monopoly-like position. >for a fee A high one propped up by a lack of competition. >Don't like it, go make apps for Pine Phone. Yeah I support some more push behind projects like that. In the meantime tho I don't think me or many others are going to suddenly love anticompetitive practices.

jimbob45 5y ago

I think most of us agree, we’re just a bit miffed by the unnecessarily incendiary language.