5 ms·

The thing is, cars are neither more nor less independent then public transport, in practice. Sure, if I have a driver's license, a car, and money for gas, I can

The thing is, cars are neither more nor less independent then public transport, in practice. Sure, if I have a driver's license, a car, and money for gas, I can hop into my car and drive... wherever the government has seen fit to allow me to drive (most importantly, by building roads to those places). Of course, I also have to find some place to park, and I have to abstain from alcohol for many hours before getting in my car; I need to be well-rested as well. While driving, I have to be constantly alert, so the most I can do in parallel is have a conversation or listen to some music. With public transport, I just need to buy a ticket - no need to buy and maintain a car, no need to spend weeks to get a driver's license. Then, once I have the ticket, I can wait and then hop on a bus/train/subway and go to... wherever the government has seen fit to allow me to ride. In practice, today, roads lead to many more places than public transit, but this is not a necessity of the world, it is to a great extent a choice that was made long ago. Also, I can get on a bus drunk (but not disorderly) or tired out of my mind. While riding, I can work, play, read etc.

shmel 5y ago
Yep, you buy a ticket and go wherever the government allowed you to go by adding public transit there. Which still relies on the roads most of the time. There are a lot more more roads than buses. During 2020-2021 I wanted to explore green spaces just outside of London. Guess what, doing it without car is incredibly painful. I'd rather take 1h drive than 3h journey on 4 different buses that includes 1h total wait on different bus stops. But hey, I can be drunk on those buses! Once you go a tiny bit more rural than a million city, you start encountering "once an hour buses" and "there are only 3 buses a day here, only 2 on Sundays" situations. Don't get me wrong, I am happy that I don't need a car to go to a supermarket nor to meet a mate in a pub. But cars do provide a lot more independence.
- coldtea 5y ago
  >Once you go a tiny bit more rural than a million city, you start encountering "once an hour buses" and "there are only 3 buses a day here, only 2 on Sundays" situations. So? Those are some of the best places. They slow the rat race frenzy down, for one...
throwaway22032 5y ago
Right, okay. So, I have a friend. He owns a farm. I want to go and visit him on his farm. There is never going to be a bus service that goes there, ever. I love public transport and use it whenever I can because it's better. My house costs hundreds of thousands of pounds more than an equivalent one that's far from public transport. It was a very active choice. But independent is one thing it definitely is not. Last month my local train services were cut from every 15 minutes to every 30 "Cus COVID". My car goes when I want it to.
- simiones 5y ago
  > So, I have a friend. He owns a farm. I want to go and visit him on his farm. The state built a road to their farm (and presumably that road goes past the farm as well). What would stop them from also running a (rare, definitely) bus line around there? > Last month my local train services were cut from every 15 minutes to every 30 "Cus COVID". Sure, global pandemics are one weak point of public services of every kind, unfortunately.
  - throwaway22032 5y ago
    Okay, so I go and get in my car and I'm going to visit my friend on his farm. You're waiting at the bus stop for this rare service. How often is it coming? 99.99% of the time no-one even uses it. Once every day, then? Weekly? It doesn't make any sense at all. You'd turn basic interactions that I have into something approaching booking intercontinental flights. Absolute madness. Like, this bus service will not exist. Quantum tunnelling is more likely. I can't even get a bus to my friend who lives 10 miles away from me in London. On your second point - sure, the independence argument for public transport has become weaker. In 2020 my local tube station was actually fully closed for months on end "Cus COVID". Car 1, public transport 0.
    - simiones 5y ago
      I'm not suggeting a bus that only goes to your friend's farm. It could be a (small) bus that passes very close, or that goes to a series of neighboring farms. The point is not that this is available today, as we clearly live in a very car-centric culture and no one is planning this type of small scale public transit. But it's not at all inherently impossible, it could well be achieved, especially where you're still near to a major city. In my country for example there is public transport for taking kids from small (and very poor) villages that don't have their own school to neighboring villages that do - and that's much more feasible and much more economical than expecting each family to buy and maintain their own car and gas, and to drive each child individually to school in the morning, then to drive back to school in the afternoon, pick them up, and drive back. And the kids are much more independent by having access to this than if they had to synchronize with their parents.

shmel 5y ago

Yep, you buy a ticket and go wherever the government allowed you to go by adding public transit there. Which still relies on the roads most of the time. There are a lot more more roads than buses. During 2020-2021 I wanted to explore green spaces just outside of London. Guess what, doing it without car is incredibly painful. I'd rather take 1h drive than 3h journey on 4 different buses that includes 1h total wait on different bus stops. But hey, I can be drunk on those buses! Once you go a tiny bit more rural than a million city, you start encountering "once an hour buses" and "there are only 3 buses a day here, only 2 on Sundays" situations. Don't get me wrong, I am happy that I don't need a car to go to a supermarket nor to meet a mate in a pub. But cars do provide a lot more independence.

coldtea 5y ago
>Once you go a tiny bit more rural than a million city, you start encountering "once an hour buses" and "there are only 3 buses a day here, only 2 on Sundays" situations. So? Those are some of the best places. They slow the rat race frenzy down, for one...

throwaway22032 5y ago

Right, okay. So, I have a friend. He owns a farm. I want to go and visit him on his farm. There is never going to be a bus service that goes there, ever. I love public transport and use it whenever I can because it's better. My house costs hundreds of thousands of pounds more than an equivalent one that's far from public transport. It was a very active choice. But independent is one thing it definitely is not. Last month my local train services were cut from every 15 minutes to every 30 "Cus COVID". My car goes when I want it to.

simiones 5y ago
> So, I have a friend. He owns a farm. I want to go and visit him on his farm. The state built a road to their farm (and presumably that road goes past the farm as well). What would stop them from also running a (rare, definitely) bus line around there? > Last month my local train services were cut from every 15 minutes to every 30 "Cus COVID". Sure, global pandemics are one weak point of public services of every kind, unfortunately.
- throwaway22032 5y ago
  Okay, so I go and get in my car and I'm going to visit my friend on his farm. You're waiting at the bus stop for this rare service. How often is it coming? 99.99% of the time no-one even uses it. Once every day, then? Weekly? It doesn't make any sense at all. You'd turn basic interactions that I have into something approaching booking intercontinental flights. Absolute madness. Like, this bus service will not exist. Quantum tunnelling is more likely. I can't even get a bus to my friend who lives 10 miles away from me in London. On your second point - sure, the independence argument for public transport has become weaker. In 2020 my local tube station was actually fully closed for months on end "Cus COVID". Car 1, public transport 0.
  - simiones 5y ago
    I'm not suggeting a bus that only goes to your friend's farm. It could be a (small) bus that passes very close, or that goes to a series of neighboring farms. The point is not that this is available today, as we clearly live in a very car-centric culture and no one is planning this type of small scale public transit. But it's not at all inherently impossible, it could well be achieved, especially where you're still near to a major city. In my country for example there is public transport for taking kids from small (and very poor) villages that don't have their own school to neighboring villages that do - and that's much more feasible and much more economical than expecting each family to buy and maintain their own car and gas, and to drive each child individually to school in the morning, then to drive back to school in the afternoon, pick them up, and drive back. And the kids are much more independent by having access to this than if they had to synchronize with their parents.