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It's pretty irrelevant to derive any conclusion about mass public education systems based on extreme outliers. No one will "become Bach" by attending a school

by avip 5y ago

It's pretty irrelevant to derive any conclusion about mass public education systems based on extreme outliers. No one will "become Bach" by attending a school with good music curriculum, and no school could have input a Bach-level talent and output a median musician.

bluesign 5y ago
That's the all selling point of the talk though. System is hiding potential outliers ( like the dancer example ) Although it is conveniently ignoring the failure examples.
watwut 5y ago
Bach has gotten tons of schooling. He got born in family of musicians and was taught by them. When his parents died, he lived with brother that continued to teach him. And when he was 15, he went to prestigious school. Also, classical music in general involves a lot of theory. It is not just about "make nice sounding tune by intuition".
- masklinn 5y ago
  Not just classical composition either, I really should not be at this point but I’m regularly surprised about “contemporary” (50s and forwards) musicians having a strong classical (playing) or formal background. Youtube has really opened my eyes on the subject as well: there are truckloads of jazz players discussing musical theory. Which makes a lot of sense in hindsight: properly deconstructing and playing with structures is difficult if you don’t deeply understand those structures. But I’m not really musically inclined and I’ve never been fond of jazz so I never saw this.
  - watwut 5y ago
    Yeah, Jazz is heavy on theory too. Especially for improvisation and jamming, you really really need to know what you are doing and which tone will match what the group is doing at the same time. But to play folk or rock music for example, you do not need that much of it. If you can read music sheet, you can reproduce the song. You can kinda create similar own going by intuition. But, creating the stuff Bach was creating absolutely does require tons of knowledge.

by avip 5y ago

bluesign 5y ago

That's the all selling point of the talk though. System is hiding potential outliers ( like the dancer example ) Although it is conveniently ignoring the failure examples.

watwut 5y ago

Bach has gotten tons of schooling. He got born in family of musicians and was taught by them. When his parents died, he lived with brother that continued to teach him. And when he was 15, he went to prestigious school. Also, classical music in general involves a lot of theory. It is not just about "make nice sounding tune by intuition".

masklinn 5y ago
Not just classical composition either, I really should not be at this point but I’m regularly surprised about “contemporary” (50s and forwards) musicians having a strong classical (playing) or formal background. Youtube has really opened my eyes on the subject as well: there are truckloads of jazz players discussing musical theory. Which makes a lot of sense in hindsight: properly deconstructing and playing with structures is difficult if you don’t deeply understand those structures. But I’m not really musically inclined and I’ve never been fond of jazz so I never saw this.
- watwut 5y ago
  Yeah, Jazz is heavy on theory too. Especially for improvisation and jamming, you really really need to know what you are doing and which tone will match what the group is doing at the same time. But to play folk or rock music for example, you do not need that much of it. If you can read music sheet, you can reproduce the song. You can kinda create similar own going by intuition. But, creating the stuff Bach was creating absolutely does require tons of knowledge.