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Jeez, HN is vicious. Reminds me of the two minutes hate. Who would’ve guessed it’d be for a company and not a person? We even have the tribalism thing going on

Jeez, HN is vicious. Reminds me of the two minutes hate. Who would’ve guessed it’d be for a company and not a person? We even have the tribalism thing going on where if you think Facebook is fine, you’re a suspicious outsider. It’s one of the most popular services in the world. I guarantee you society would react strongly to the sudden absence of it, no matter how much you wouldn’t. We are all outliers. And that doesn’t make us better.

bb88 5y ago
What? You wanna have a discussion about what FB did to the world? FB's actions are way more heinous than what any forum post would be.
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  So? People are acting like shutting it down has zero consequences. That's crazy.
  - bb88 5y ago
    I still fail to see said consequences. All I see are consequences of FB's continued existence. There's a quote I heard recently you may enjoy when one of the conservatives told off PM Johnson. "You've sat there too long for all the good that you've done. In the name of God, go."
    - sillysaurusx 5y ago
      Now that the thread is wiped, want to talk more about those consequences? May as well be candid. I think there would be a relatively violent (in online terms, not literally) reaction as people try to figure out where to go. Not only would Facebook not go away, but even if they did, the replacement wouldn’t be better.
      - bb88 5y ago
        Sure, let's start with the testimony of whistle blower Frances Haugen: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/10/05/technology/facebook-whistleblower-frances-haugen https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/10/05/technology/facebook-... There's a lot to unpack, but the NYTimes does a pretty good job of it. Then there's the ugliness of Rohingya: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/06/rohingya-sue-facebook-myanmar-genocide-us-uk-legal-action-social-media-violence https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/06/rohingya-... Then there's the ugliness of Russian Trolls. https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook-troll-farms-report-us-2020-election/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook... Then there's the whole if you're not paying for a product, then you are the product. https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/facebook-10-billion-apple-privacy-push https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/facebook-10-billion-appl... There was cambridge analytica: https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/25/facebook-ignored-staff-warnings-about-sketchy-cambridge-analytica-in-september-2015/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/25/facebook-ignored-staff-war... There was the Iranian Trolls: https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-twitter-eye-iran-fake-account-crackdown/ https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-twitter-eye-iran-fake-a... Then there's the NFT crap they're pushing: https://www.ft.com/content/2745d50b-36e4-4c0a-abe0-e93f035b0628 https://www.ft.com/content/2745d50b-36e4-4c0a-abe0-e93f035b0... FB Misled Congress in their role in the insurrection: https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/22/business/january-6-insurrection-facebook-papers/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/22/business/january-6-insurrecti... FB treated celebrities one way and regular people another https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-files-xcheck-zuckerberg-elite-rules-11631541353?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-files-xcheck-zuckerber... When employees approached Mark Zuckerberg the algorithm was making people angrier, he refused to make changes because engagement was critical above all else. https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-algorithm-change-zuckerberg-11631654215?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-algorithm-change-zucke... When employees alerted management about human trafficking, FB did little or nothing to stop it. https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-drug-cartels-human-traffickers-response-is-weak-documents-11631812953?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-drug-cartels-human-tra... FB explored ways to get pre-teens hooked on the platform. https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-instagram-kids-tweens-attract-11632849667?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-instagram-kids-tweens-... Finally: here's a good article about FB. They shut down the facial recognition software after China used it to identify the Uyghurs from their population. US law enforcement used it to arrest people who just looked like the people they were going after. Still bad, but you know it only took 10 years of complaining about it. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/02/technology/facebook-facial-recognition.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/02/technology/facebook-facia... And I'm pretty sure there's maybe at least another 2x of where that came from. Edited to add: > Not only would Facebook not go away, but even if they did, the replacement wouldn’t be better. This is not a perfect analogy, but hopefully you get the point. If you clean up trash in your town, does that mean the trash that replaces it is worse? No. It's just more of the regular old trash. But the question is, what signal does it send to those that want to dump blocks worth of trash in your town if you don't clean up the trash in your town?
  - mrweasel 5y ago
    It is a bit much. Millions of people will feel it, should Meta opt to leave the EU. The question will of cause be: Would the EU be better for without Facebook and Instagram. Some of believe so, personally, not having any interest in any Meta products, I just want to see what will happen if they leave. It might be good for European companies, as Facebook has seriously hurt small website bureaus, but it might also be a disaster for other businesses.
ghusto 5y ago
The comparison is unfair. The two minute hate was for promoting group-think and outing free-thinkers, whereas the hatred for Facebook comes from actual grievances. Companies like Facebook are everything that's wrong with the world, and people know this deep down which is where all the hatred is coming from. They divide, promote hatred and silo thinking, promote breadth in place of depth, cause depression, I could go on for a while here. Imagine if they disappeared overnight. All the small players could have a go again. Yes in time we'd have the same issues that acquisition and shutdowns bring, as one company grows bigger than the others, but at least for a while we could breath and innovate again.

bb88 5y ago

What? You wanna have a discussion about what FB did to the world? FB's actions are way more heinous than what any forum post would be.

sillysaurusx 5y ago
So? People are acting like shutting it down has zero consequences. That's crazy.
- bb88 5y ago
  I still fail to see said consequences. All I see are consequences of FB's continued existence. There's a quote I heard recently you may enjoy when one of the conservatives told off PM Johnson. "You've sat there too long for all the good that you've done. In the name of God, go."
  - sillysaurusx 5y ago
    Now that the thread is wiped, want to talk more about those consequences? May as well be candid. I think there would be a relatively violent (in online terms, not literally) reaction as people try to figure out where to go. Not only would Facebook not go away, but even if they did, the replacement wouldn’t be better.
    - bb88 5y ago
      Sure, let's start with the testimony of whistle blower Frances Haugen: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/10/05/technology/facebook-whistleblower-frances-haugen https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/10/05/technology/facebook-... There's a lot to unpack, but the NYTimes does a pretty good job of it. Then there's the ugliness of Rohingya: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/06/rohingya-sue-facebook-myanmar-genocide-us-uk-legal-action-social-media-violence https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/06/rohingya-... Then there's the ugliness of Russian Trolls. https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook-troll-farms-report-us-2020-election/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook... Then there's the whole if you're not paying for a product, then you are the product. https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/facebook-10-billion-apple-privacy-push https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/facebook-10-billion-appl... There was cambridge analytica: https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/25/facebook-ignored-staff-warnings-about-sketchy-cambridge-analytica-in-september-2015/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/25/facebook-ignored-staff-war... There was the Iranian Trolls: https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-twitter-eye-iran-fake-account-crackdown/ https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-twitter-eye-iran-fake-a... Then there's the NFT crap they're pushing: https://www.ft.com/content/2745d50b-36e4-4c0a-abe0-e93f035b0628 https://www.ft.com/content/2745d50b-36e4-4c0a-abe0-e93f035b0... FB Misled Congress in their role in the insurrection: https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/22/business/january-6-insurrection-facebook-papers/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/22/business/january-6-insurrecti... FB treated celebrities one way and regular people another https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-files-xcheck-zuckerberg-elite-rules-11631541353?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-files-xcheck-zuckerber... When employees approached Mark Zuckerberg the algorithm was making people angrier, he refused to make changes because engagement was critical above all else. https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-algorithm-change-zuckerberg-11631654215?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-algorithm-change-zucke... When employees alerted management about human trafficking, FB did little or nothing to stop it. https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-drug-cartels-human-traffickers-response-is-weak-documents-11631812953?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-drug-cartels-human-tra... FB explored ways to get pre-teens hooked on the platform. https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-instagram-kids-tweens-attract-11632849667?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-instagram-kids-tweens-... Finally: here's a good article about FB. They shut down the facial recognition software after China used it to identify the Uyghurs from their population. US law enforcement used it to arrest people who just looked like the people they were going after. Still bad, but you know it only took 10 years of complaining about it. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/02/technology/facebook-facial-recognition.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/02/technology/facebook-facia... And I'm pretty sure there's maybe at least another 2x of where that came from. Edited to add: > Not only would Facebook not go away, but even if they did, the replacement wouldn’t be better. This is not a perfect analogy, but hopefully you get the point. If you clean up trash in your town, does that mean the trash that replaces it is worse? No. It's just more of the regular old trash. But the question is, what signal does it send to those that want to dump blocks worth of trash in your town if you don't clean up the trash in your town?
- mrweasel 5y ago
  It is a bit much. Millions of people will feel it, should Meta opt to leave the EU. The question will of cause be: Would the EU be better for without Facebook and Instagram. Some of believe so, personally, not having any interest in any Meta products, I just want to see what will happen if they leave. It might be good for European companies, as Facebook has seriously hurt small website bureaus, but it might also be a disaster for other businesses.

ghusto 5y ago

The comparison is unfair. The two minute hate was for promoting group-think and outing free-thinkers, whereas the hatred for Facebook comes from actual grievances. Companies like Facebook are everything that's wrong with the world, and people know this deep down which is where all the hatred is coming from. They divide, promote hatred and silo thinking, promote breadth in place of depth, cause depression, I could go on for a while here. Imagine if they disappeared overnight. All the small players could have a go again. Yes in time we'd have the same issues that acquisition and shutdowns bring, as one company grows bigger than the others, but at least for a while we could breath and innovate again.