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This is exactly what I want: a trusted centralized database for no-fee instant domestic and international transfers - I want this NOW. A million times better th

by _xnmw 5y ago

This is exactly what I want: a trusted centralized database for no-fee instant domestic and international transfers - I want this NOW. A million times better than any crypto scam, because: 1. I trust the USG. 2. The value of a currency comes from the issuing entity, and acceptance by merchants, not speculation on a blockchain (or any other technology). 3. Since it is centralized it will be reversible in court if hacked or mistakenly sent. 4. Since it is centralized it will be able to handle millions of transactions per second assuming they don’t screw up the technology. If they get this right it will simultaneously render all crypto useless (except for crime) AND actually deliver on the false claims of crypto which never materialized in the past 10 years.

netheril96 5y ago
It won’t render crypto useless because it is still subject to inflation unlike Bitcoins. The idea that Bitcoin protects owners from dollar inflation can be false, but as long as many believe in that notion, eUSD cannot replace Bitcoin.
fastball 5y ago
Bitcoin was invented to specifically avoid centralization, so it definitely doesn't solve the same problems.
McAtNite 5y ago
I disagree on the idea that it would render crypto useless. In one aspect this would absolutely fail to address an entire section of the crypto market - privacy. You can attempt to make the tired “if you have nothing to hide” argument against it, but I don’t think that will change a privacy conscious person’s mind to suddenly accept centralized spending tracking by the gov. The other area this would utterly fail to address would be the existence of a central authority. Failure to understand why people in crypto look so negatively at centralization is a failure to understand why Bitcoin exists in the first place, and how it was a direct response to the 2008 crash and subsequent reaction of the USG. I’m sure a portion of the modern day crypto “investors” would migrate to whatever the USG puts out, but it certainly wouldn’t be embraced by a large part of the overall crypto community.
- _xnmw 5y ago
  In other words, you're saying crypto really isn't about financial innovation, it's actually about anarchy. Well I want nothing of that.
  - nkuttler 5y ago
    Are you saying that a free market for currencies is anarchy?
    - oblio 5y ago
      1. Currencies should first and foremost be stable, not speculation vehicles and they need to have really low transaction fees. The main cryptocurrencies in use right now fail both of those tests and for the rest... Well, they have to be weeded out, too many experiments and scams at the moment. We need to check the survivors in 10 years. 2. Currency is a major tool for social stability and requires intervention occasionally. Yes, a free market for currencies is socially very dangerous.
  - McAtNite 5y ago
    Early crypto was an innovation in that certain aspects of the financial system were set to be controlled solely by code, and could not be influenced by any outside force. For example, no one can magically issue new bitcoins. The entire idea isn’t anarchy, but guaranteed constants separated from centralized authorities that could change parameters on a whim. It’s why you’ll occasionally hear people who have been in the crypto space for awhile say, “code is law.” Again, you really need to understand the criticisms of 2008 to understand Bitcoin. Modern crypto? Well it’s changed a lot over the years. Sure a lot of it is about “innovations”, and there are some genuinely good ideas out there, but a lot of it feels like the transition from the early web to what we have now. That can be good or bad depending on your point of view.
  - Koshkin 5y ago
    You say anarchy, I say freedom.
  - MrMan 5y ago
quantified 5y ago
Do you maybe trust some parts of USG less than others?
WalterBright 5y ago
> I trust the USG. FDR defaulted on the gold bonds, stealing from those bond holders. Just last year, the government took 7% of your dollars (via inflation). > The value of a currency comes from a government More specifically, it comes from the issuing entity. For example, a cashier's check is only as good as the bank that honors it. Same for a credit card. Did you know that banks historically issued their own currency? I suppose everyone has forgotten American Express Travelers' Cheques, which were bank issued currency.
sb057 5y ago
>I trust the USG. You might, but I and many[1], many[2], many[3], many[4], many[5], many[6], many[7] others don't. [1] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-03-03-mn-34339-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-03-03-mn-34339-... [2] https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/politics/obama-drones-cia/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/politics/obama-drones-cia/ind... [3] https://densho.org/learn/introduction/american-concentration-camps/ https://densho.org/learn/introduction/american-concentration... [4] https://www.iraqbodycount.org/ https://www.iraqbodycount.org/ [5] https://consortiumnews.com/2012/01/23/reagans-hand-in-guatemalas-genocide/ https://consortiumnews.com/2012/01/23/reagans-hand-in-guatem... [6] https://apnews.com/article/business-33a88feb083ea35515de3c73e3d854ad https://apnews.com/article/business-33a88feb083ea35515de3c73... [7] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/24/us/supreme-court-case-no-fly-list.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/24/us/supreme-court-case-no-... Please note that none of those are one-off incidents or perpetrated by a rogue party. All of the above were concerted efforts by the United States federal government that were carried out for years on end and, in almost all cases, have yet to be formally apologized for, with some continuing as I type this. Edit: additionally, the Federal Reserve is not part of the United States government, and is instead owned by Citibank, JPMorgan, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, BNY, HSBC, Deutsche Bank, Mizuho Bank, and the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, among others. https://www.stlouisfed.org/in-plain-english/who-owns-the-federal-reserve-banks https://www.stlouisfed.org/in-plain-english/who-owns-the-fed... https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1kh4p10qysrhv/Conspiracy-Theorists-Ask-Who-Owns-the-New-York-Fed-Here-s-the-Answer https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1kh4p10qysrhv...
- balls187 5y ago
  Not to minimize or trivialize these numbers, but it puts what we're going through in perspective. In 2008-2022 estimated 288,000 Iraqi's died, due to war. 2020-2022 estimated 926,029 American's died, due to covid-19. I wonder when we will understand the true impact ~1m dead American's had on our nation.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
You should never trust any government. Open up a history book. Even our own (USA) current government is trending towards authoritarianism and total surveillance, both of which are very very bad things when the totalitarian types are knocking on the gates (Trumpers). If I were you I'd take a look around.

by _xnmw 5y ago

netheril96 5y ago

It won’t render crypto useless because it is still subject to inflation unlike Bitcoins. The idea that Bitcoin protects owners from dollar inflation can be false, but as long as many believe in that notion, eUSD cannot replace Bitcoin.

fastball 5y ago

Bitcoin was invented to specifically avoid centralization, so it definitely doesn't solve the same problems.

McAtNite 5y ago

I disagree on the idea that it would render crypto useless. In one aspect this would absolutely fail to address an entire section of the crypto market - privacy. You can attempt to make the tired “if you have nothing to hide” argument against it, but I don’t think that will change a privacy conscious person’s mind to suddenly accept centralized spending tracking by the gov. The other area this would utterly fail to address would be the existence of a central authority. Failure to understand why people in crypto look so negatively at centralization is a failure to understand why Bitcoin exists in the first place, and how it was a direct response to the 2008 crash and subsequent reaction of the USG. I’m sure a portion of the modern day crypto “investors” would migrate to whatever the USG puts out, but it certainly wouldn’t be embraced by a large part of the overall crypto community.

_xnmw 5y ago
In other words, you're saying crypto really isn't about financial innovation, it's actually about anarchy. Well I want nothing of that.
- nkuttler 5y ago
  Are you saying that a free market for currencies is anarchy?
  - oblio 5y ago
    1. Currencies should first and foremost be stable, not speculation vehicles and they need to have really low transaction fees. The main cryptocurrencies in use right now fail both of those tests and for the rest... Well, they have to be weeded out, too many experiments and scams at the moment. We need to check the survivors in 10 years. 2. Currency is a major tool for social stability and requires intervention occasionally. Yes, a free market for currencies is socially very dangerous.
- McAtNite 5y ago
  Early crypto was an innovation in that certain aspects of the financial system were set to be controlled solely by code, and could not be influenced by any outside force. For example, no one can magically issue new bitcoins. The entire idea isn’t anarchy, but guaranteed constants separated from centralized authorities that could change parameters on a whim. It’s why you’ll occasionally hear people who have been in the crypto space for awhile say, “code is law.” Again, you really need to understand the criticisms of 2008 to understand Bitcoin. Modern crypto? Well it’s changed a lot over the years. Sure a lot of it is about “innovations”, and there are some genuinely good ideas out there, but a lot of it feels like the transition from the early web to what we have now. That can be good or bad depending on your point of view.
- Koshkin 5y ago
  You say anarchy, I say freedom.
- MrMan 5y ago

quantified 5y ago

Do you maybe trust some parts of USG less than others?

WalterBright 5y ago

> I trust the USG. FDR defaulted on the gold bonds, stealing from those bond holders. Just last year, the government took 7% of your dollars (via inflation). > The value of a currency comes from a government More specifically, it comes from the issuing entity. For example, a cashier's check is only as good as the bank that honors it. Same for a credit card. Did you know that banks historically issued their own currency? I suppose everyone has forgotten American Express Travelers' Cheques, which were bank issued currency.

sb057 5y ago

>I trust the USG. You might, but I and many[1], many[2], many[3], many[4], many[5], many[6], many[7] others don't. [1] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-03-03-mn-34339-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-03-03-mn-34339-... [2] https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/politics/obama-drones-cia/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/politics/obama-drones-cia/ind... [3] https://densho.org/learn/introduction/american-concentration-camps/ https://densho.org/learn/introduction/american-concentration... [4] https://www.iraqbodycount.org/ https://www.iraqbodycount.org/ [5] https://consortiumnews.com/2012/01/23/reagans-hand-in-guatemalas-genocide/ https://consortiumnews.com/2012/01/23/reagans-hand-in-guatem... [6] https://apnews.com/article/business-33a88feb083ea35515de3c73e3d854ad https://apnews.com/article/business-33a88feb083ea35515de3c73... [7] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/24/us/supreme-court-case-no-fly-list.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/24/us/supreme-court-case-no-... Please note that none of those are one-off incidents or perpetrated by a rogue party. All of the above were concerted efforts by the United States federal government that were carried out for years on end and, in almost all cases, have yet to be formally apologized for, with some continuing as I type this. Edit: additionally, the Federal Reserve is not part of the United States government, and is instead owned by Citibank, JPMorgan, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, BNY, HSBC, Deutsche Bank, Mizuho Bank, and the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, among others. https://www.stlouisfed.org/in-plain-english/who-owns-the-federal-reserve-banks https://www.stlouisfed.org/in-plain-english/who-owns-the-fed... https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1kh4p10qysrhv/Conspiracy-Theorists-Ask-Who-Owns-the-New-York-Fed-Here-s-the-Answer https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1kh4p10qysrhv...

balls187 5y ago
Not to minimize or trivialize these numbers, but it puts what we're going through in perspective. In 2008-2022 estimated 288,000 Iraqi's died, due to war. 2020-2022 estimated 926,029 American's died, due to covid-19. I wonder when we will understand the true impact ~1m dead American's had on our nation.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

You should never trust any government. Open up a history book. Even our own (USA) current government is trending towards authoritarianism and total surveillance, both of which are very very bad things when the totalitarian types are knocking on the gates (Trumpers). If I were you I'd take a look around.