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> I have more than 15 years of experience, working on frontend, backend, doing infra level work, some SRE etc. In most of my jobs I've been also on an on call r

> I have more than 15 years of experience, working on frontend, backend, doing infra level work, some SRE etc. In most of my jobs I've been also on an on call rotation and when I was at Travis CI I've been on a "support rotation". I've been fixing nasty memory related bugs that put I feel like you’re getting defensive, although I wasn’t attacking you. If that’s how I came off, I apologize. Your 15 years experience doesn’t guarantee you’ll be happy or successful at Amazon, Google, or Facebook (companies I worked at). The cost of hiring the wrong person is exceedingly high, and therefore, we’ve resorted to phone screens and on site loops. Which you can love or hate, but I can guarantee you right that hiring is such a hard problem that if there was a more economical way (from a business perspective), to hire at scale, it would have been implemented or at least tested. > I just refuse to interview if there is a coding challenge involved. What I care about, however, is that it's just a shitty practice that is so popular in the industry and people with less privilage than I have might have a hard time getting jobs where they would thrive, because they have this issue. Let’s look at the economics. This will not change unless it negatively affects businesses. And so far, it doesn’t. You don’t want to interview? Well, someone else does, as it turns out. And there are enough folks who are able to get through to keep these companies functioning. The nice thing is that there are companies who don’t give coding tests. You have the option to work there. But to say that because technical screens don’t work for everyone, that we should change the process entirely because here’s another group whose upset - I don’t buy that. At some point, we might as well not even do interviews. Any interview, even verbal behavioral questions, can be considered “triggering”. Or looking for candidates with 15 years experience, which you have, is also non inclusive with respect to everyone who couldn’t afford the opportunities you have.

weatherlite 5y ago
> Let’s look at the economics. This will not change unless it negatively affects businesses You're aware of the fact things change based on changing values/culture right? Or do you think corporations nowadays operate just like they have in the 60s or 90s? Honestly if there's enough fuss and uproar about this, it will easily change. What will it change to I have no idea.
drogus 5y ago
> I feel like you’re getting defensive, although I wasn’t attacking you. If that’s how I came off, I apologize. I mean, you implied that people with performance anxity are just fragile people who will break down when an outage occurs and that they are afraid to get out of their comfort zone and then they are applying for a six figures job, you tell me if that's attacking or not. > Your 15 years experience doesn’t guarantee you’ll be happy or successful at Amazon, Google, or Facebook Not sure what's your point here. I can assure you I would not be happy at those companies, but not sure what that has to do with anything? > The cost of hiring the wrong person is exceedingly high Yes, but the current process doesn't guarantee hiring the right person either. You can hire someone who is great at solving coding challenges and puzzles, but who is terrible at working in a team, testing code, reliability, whatever. > Let’s look at the economics. This will not change unless it negatively affects businesses. And so far, it doesn’t. That's just your guess/assumption. You don't know how it affects the business and neither those companies do. Until there is a research or some kind of data comparison your guess is as good as mine. And my guess is that it is bad for business. I know a lot of good programmers with a similar problem. Even in the quoted tweets you have Piotr Solnica and Ryan Bigg, one of the best rubyists out there. If missing out on people like them is not bad for business, I'm not sure what is.

weatherlite 5y ago

> Let’s look at the economics. This will not change unless it negatively affects businesses You're aware of the fact things change based on changing values/culture right? Or do you think corporations nowadays operate just like they have in the 60s or 90s? Honestly if there's enough fuss and uproar about this, it will easily change. What will it change to I have no idea.

drogus 5y ago

> I feel like you’re getting defensive, although I wasn’t attacking you. If that’s how I came off, I apologize. I mean, you implied that people with performance anxity are just fragile people who will break down when an outage occurs and that they are afraid to get out of their comfort zone and then they are applying for a six figures job, you tell me if that's attacking or not. > Your 15 years experience doesn’t guarantee you’ll be happy or successful at Amazon, Google, or Facebook Not sure what's your point here. I can assure you I would not be happy at those companies, but not sure what that has to do with anything? > The cost of hiring the wrong person is exceedingly high Yes, but the current process doesn't guarantee hiring the right person either. You can hire someone who is great at solving coding challenges and puzzles, but who is terrible at working in a team, testing code, reliability, whatever. > Let’s look at the economics. This will not change unless it negatively affects businesses. And so far, it doesn’t. That's just your guess/assumption. You don't know how it affects the business and neither those companies do. Until there is a research or some kind of data comparison your guess is as good as mine. And my guess is that it is bad for business. I know a lot of good programmers with a similar problem. Even in the quoted tweets you have Piotr Solnica and Ryan Bigg, one of the best rubyists out there. If missing out on people like them is not bad for business, I'm not sure what is.