4 ms·

This was during a time were unpriveleged kids didn't even go to school and child labor was the norm. Gotta love papers like this that attempt to prove something

This was during a time were unpriveleged kids didn't even go to school and child labor was the norm. Gotta love papers like this that attempt to prove something from a 100 years ago when it is really impossible to prove anything with that many variables and limited information, unless you already have a goal in mind and then it is just bias confirmation.

philliphaydon 5y ago
The level of education required to do anything was also much lower. Even 20 years ago you could get a job programming without a degree but now you a PHD just to get past HR. Times have changed.
- a_t48 5y ago
  Dang, I guess I should quit then, they shouldn't have let me in the door...
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    It was a generalisation. But it’s true some places bin your cv if you don’t have a degree even if you’ve got heaps of experience.
- FanaHOVA 5y ago
  The bias towards accreditation was much higher 20 years ago than it is today.
wyattpeak 5y ago
While it's true that there are differences, I think one lesson we should learn from history is that that virtually every group thinks they're especially unusual and that lessons don't apply to them, and simultaneously that they're usually not so unique as they think, and the lessons usually do apply to them. School was less common at that time, but plenty of people went to school, and if there was a marked dropoff in employablility even in just that group, it should absolutely be visible.
- moonchrome 5y ago
  > and if there was a marked dropoff in employablility even in just that group, it should absolutely be visible. Based on statistics and records from over a 100 years ago in an industrial economy ?
  - wyattpeak 5y ago
    Yes. It's 1920, not 1620. Here's a page from a 1920 census: https://raogk.org/census-record/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/10/1920-United-States-Federal-Census-for-Griggs-County-North-Dakota.jpg https://raogk.org/census-record/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2... Here's a tax return form from the same year: http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/1040forms.nsf/WebByYear/1920/$file/1040_1920.pdf http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/1040forms.nsf/WebByYear/1920/$...
    - jefftk 5y ago
      The tax return says it is only for people making at least $5k, which would be $70k today.
      - wyattpeak 5y ago
        If you want the actual data sources used by the paper, read the paper. I'm not trying to replicate an academic's source-finding, that would take months. I'm trying to quickly demonstrate that the US was a thoroughly bureaucratic nation by 1920, not some kind of backwater where we have to guess and infer demographics.
rcpt 5y ago
Do you have a better model for school closures vs. career outlook? I'm hugely skeptical of our education system today with all the standardized and focus-busting largely irrelevant curriculums. Also the sleep deprivation can't be any good. Personally kids have thrived away from the classroom but maybe we're unusual.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  Yep, kids don't have time to be kids anymore, even compared to generations 20, 30 years ago (back then, when school was over (1pm, maybe 2pm max), you were done with school, and did kid stuff.... now, with parents pushing their kids into extracurricular activities and all that stuff, their lives suck a lot more. On the other hand, imagine being a first grader, unable to write or read, just coming from kindergarten, where most of the time was play-time, and due to something, you can't comprehend, you're put infront of a laptop with Zoom turned on, and your parents in a huge financial crisis suddently.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jorblumesea 5y ago
It's not even that, it's that education wasn't as important back then. Most people didn't even graduate high school. College definitely wasn't a thing for most. So who cares if you miss half a year, you're going to go work in the shipyards or factory.
kerneloftruth 5y ago
TFA is choosing and fitting facts to support a narrative.
- GiorgioG 5y ago

philliphaydon 5y ago

The level of education required to do anything was also much lower. Even 20 years ago you could get a job programming without a degree but now you a PHD just to get past HR. Times have changed.

a_t48 5y ago
Dang, I guess I should quit then, they shouldn't have let me in the door...
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  It was a generalisation. But it’s true some places bin your cv if you don’t have a degree even if you’ve got heaps of experience.
FanaHOVA 5y ago
The bias towards accreditation was much higher 20 years ago than it is today.

wyattpeak 5y ago

While it's true that there are differences, I think one lesson we should learn from history is that that virtually every group thinks they're especially unusual and that lessons don't apply to them, and simultaneously that they're usually not so unique as they think, and the lessons usually do apply to them. School was less common at that time, but plenty of people went to school, and if there was a marked dropoff in employablility even in just that group, it should absolutely be visible.

moonchrome 5y ago
> and if there was a marked dropoff in employablility even in just that group, it should absolutely be visible. Based on statistics and records from over a 100 years ago in an industrial economy ?
- wyattpeak 5y ago
  Yes. It's 1920, not 1620. Here's a page from a 1920 census: https://raogk.org/census-record/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/10/1920-United-States-Federal-Census-for-Griggs-County-North-Dakota.jpg https://raogk.org/census-record/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2... Here's a tax return form from the same year: http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/1040forms.nsf/WebByYear/1920/$file/1040_1920.pdf http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/1040forms.nsf/WebByYear/1920/$...
  - jefftk 5y ago
    The tax return says it is only for people making at least $5k, which would be $70k today.
    - wyattpeak 5y ago
      If you want the actual data sources used by the paper, read the paper. I'm not trying to replicate an academic's source-finding, that would take months. I'm trying to quickly demonstrate that the US was a thoroughly bureaucratic nation by 1920, not some kind of backwater where we have to guess and infer demographics.

rcpt 5y ago

Do you have a better model for school closures vs. career outlook? I'm hugely skeptical of our education system today with all the standardized and focus-busting largely irrelevant curriculums. Also the sleep deprivation can't be any good. Personally kids have thrived away from the classroom but maybe we're unusual.

ajsnigrutin 5y ago
Yep, kids don't have time to be kids anymore, even compared to generations 20, 30 years ago (back then, when school was over (1pm, maybe 2pm max), you were done with school, and did kid stuff.... now, with parents pushing their kids into extracurricular activities and all that stuff, their lives suck a lot more. On the other hand, imagine being a first grader, unable to write or read, just coming from kindergarten, where most of the time was play-time, and due to something, you can't comprehend, you're put infront of a laptop with Zoom turned on, and your parents in a huge financial crisis suddently.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jorblumesea 5y ago

It's not even that, it's that education wasn't as important back then. Most people didn't even graduate high school. College definitely wasn't a thing for most. So who cares if you miss half a year, you're going to go work in the shipyards or factory.

kerneloftruth 5y ago

TFA is choosing and fitting facts to support a narrative.

GiorgioG 5y ago