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I don't understand this consumerist mindset. A monitor is a monitor. Programmers don't need color accuracy so any 4k will suffice. Your thinking just incenivize

I don't understand this consumerist mindset. A monitor is a monitor. Programmers don't need color accuracy so any 4k will suffice. Your thinking just incenivizes "Programming grade" monitors that are just overpriced regular ones. I don't see how you could make a several thousand dollar 4k monitor if you tried.

eyelidlessness 5y ago
> Programmers don't need color accuracy so any 4k will suffice. Surely it depends on what we’re programming? Color accuracy (and inaccuracy for accessibility testing) is important for most anything we produce graphically that’s user-facing. > A monitor is a monitor. Color accuracy isn’t the only reason to invest more in display quality. Viewing angle and refresh rate are important factors as well. Their relative importance varies by use case: of course refresh rate being more important for game development; viewing angle and even color accuracy can be important for developer accessibility (example: I have a lot of sensory sensitivities, and color warp/washout at angles is a constant cognitive burden even if I’m not directly looking at it). > I don't understand this consumerist mindset. Indiscriminately buying cheap goods tends to also be a consumerist mindset and behavior. It often leads to more frequent purchases and disposal, producing both greater cost and waste. Which isn’t to say all pricing—in technology or otherwise—reflects value or longevity. But blanket rejecting the possibility isn’t helpful in distinguishing that. > I don't see how you could make a several thousand dollar 4k monitor if you tried. Even without addressing specialized use cases, it’s easy: low volume + high cost bill of materials. This used to be the case with IPS panels, and continues to be the case with newer/less pervasive panel details (eg OLED or higher pixel density displays). And again, whether those are requisite for a given programmer will depend on their work product and their own individual needs. - - - I won’t go so far as to say that everyone should arrive at the same cost/benefit analysis. But I will say that, in terms of tools to do our jobs, displays are very close to directly analogous to mattresses, chairs and shoes: oftentimes, skimping on cost is more costly than spending more upfront.
- waste_monk 5y ago
  > is important for most anything we produce graphically that’s user-facing. I can see the need for cross-domain (e.g. UX or graphics) specialists to have high-accuracy monitors but for most devs I don't it as necessary, as generally speaking you have an IDE with a bunch of code (text) and probably another monitor with your terminals, web browser with documentation, instant messaging app, etc. pretty much all of which is text-based. >refresh rate... viewing angle and even colour accuracy can be important for developer accessibility With regards to viewing angle, I have a nice dual-arm monitor mount system that allows it to be easily repositioned (limited 6DOF) as I change sitting posture throughout the day. Maybe something like this would help you? I will say I usually score badly on colour perception tests (not colourblind, rather the tests where you have to order a number of very similar hues) so I could be missing a whole bunch of subtle colour errors that would irritate regular users :)
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    > I can see the need for cross-domain (e.g. UX or graphics) specialists to have high-accuracy monitors but for most devs I don't it as necessary, as generally speaking you have an IDE with a bunch of code (text) and probably another monitor with your terminals, web browser with documentation, instant messaging app, etc. pretty much all of which is text-based. I was speaking specifically to the domains that serve use cases where display quality matters. Quite a lot of us at least overlap with that. Basically all FE web or GUI dev, any end-user image/video processing, pretty much anything that puts graphics on a screen that aren’t UI SDK builtins. > With regards to viewing angle, I have a nice dual-arm monitor mount system that allows it to be easily repositioned (limited 6DOF) as I change sitting posture throughout the day. Maybe something like this would help you? I have challenges with hyperfocus which include uncomfortable stillness for prolonged periods of time. I also have a puppy who reacts to very small motion adjustments during work hours in a way which becomes a huge ordeal. This is another reason my Comically Large Display (described in another comment in thread) works well for me. I think adjusting a mounting arm would be counterproductive for me. > I will say I usually score badly on colour perception tests (not colourblind, rather the tests where you have to order a number of very similar hues) so I could be missing a whole bunch of subtle colour errors that would irritate regular users :) I don’t do a lot of color accurate work but color/luminance wash is a huge problem for me if I have to deal with it. Like a background task that never stops until my brain is depleted. Having a panel that doesn’t distort that way in my peripheral vision is essential for me to be able to work.
p12tic 5y ago
I agree that just buying the most expensive monitor is waste of resources. On the other hand, I think price shouldn't even come into the picture when deciding on basic things, such as the number of monitors or whether to choose 4K monitor or just FHD. I guess the most reasonable approach is to select a set of models that pass the requirements and only then think about the price. Some requirements are really expensive though. If one insists on OLED and wants to fit 3 4K monitors side by side the full setup cost is around $10k.

eyelidlessness 5y ago

> Programmers don't need color accuracy so any 4k will suffice. Surely it depends on what we’re programming? Color accuracy (and inaccuracy for accessibility testing) is important for most anything we produce graphically that’s user-facing. > A monitor is a monitor. Color accuracy isn’t the only reason to invest more in display quality. Viewing angle and refresh rate are important factors as well. Their relative importance varies by use case: of course refresh rate being more important for game development; viewing angle and even color accuracy can be important for developer accessibility (example: I have a lot of sensory sensitivities, and color warp/washout at angles is a constant cognitive burden even if I’m not directly looking at it). > I don't understand this consumerist mindset. Indiscriminately buying cheap goods tends to also be a consumerist mindset and behavior. It often leads to more frequent purchases and disposal, producing both greater cost and waste. Which isn’t to say all pricing—in technology or otherwise—reflects value or longevity. But blanket rejecting the possibility isn’t helpful in distinguishing that. > I don't see how you could make a several thousand dollar 4k monitor if you tried. Even without addressing specialized use cases, it’s easy: low volume + high cost bill of materials. This used to be the case with IPS panels, and continues to be the case with newer/less pervasive panel details (eg OLED or higher pixel density displays). And again, whether those are requisite for a given programmer will depend on their work product and their own individual needs. - - - I won’t go so far as to say that everyone should arrive at the same cost/benefit analysis. But I will say that, in terms of tools to do our jobs, displays are very close to directly analogous to mattresses, chairs and shoes: oftentimes, skimping on cost is more costly than spending more upfront.

waste_monk 5y ago
> is important for most anything we produce graphically that’s user-facing. I can see the need for cross-domain (e.g. UX or graphics) specialists to have high-accuracy monitors but for most devs I don't it as necessary, as generally speaking you have an IDE with a bunch of code (text) and probably another monitor with your terminals, web browser with documentation, instant messaging app, etc. pretty much all of which is text-based. >refresh rate... viewing angle and even colour accuracy can be important for developer accessibility With regards to viewing angle, I have a nice dual-arm monitor mount system that allows it to be easily repositioned (limited 6DOF) as I change sitting posture throughout the day. Maybe something like this would help you? I will say I usually score badly on colour perception tests (not colourblind, rather the tests where you have to order a number of very similar hues) so I could be missing a whole bunch of subtle colour errors that would irritate regular users :)
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  > I can see the need for cross-domain (e.g. UX or graphics) specialists to have high-accuracy monitors but for most devs I don't it as necessary, as generally speaking you have an IDE with a bunch of code (text) and probably another monitor with your terminals, web browser with documentation, instant messaging app, etc. pretty much all of which is text-based. I was speaking specifically to the domains that serve use cases where display quality matters. Quite a lot of us at least overlap with that. Basically all FE web or GUI dev, any end-user image/video processing, pretty much anything that puts graphics on a screen that aren’t UI SDK builtins. > With regards to viewing angle, I have a nice dual-arm monitor mount system that allows it to be easily repositioned (limited 6DOF) as I change sitting posture throughout the day. Maybe something like this would help you? I have challenges with hyperfocus which include uncomfortable stillness for prolonged periods of time. I also have a puppy who reacts to very small motion adjustments during work hours in a way which becomes a huge ordeal. This is another reason my Comically Large Display (described in another comment in thread) works well for me. I think adjusting a mounting arm would be counterproductive for me. > I will say I usually score badly on colour perception tests (not colourblind, rather the tests where you have to order a number of very similar hues) so I could be missing a whole bunch of subtle colour errors that would irritate regular users :) I don’t do a lot of color accurate work but color/luminance wash is a huge problem for me if I have to deal with it. Like a background task that never stops until my brain is depleted. Having a panel that doesn’t distort that way in my peripheral vision is essential for me to be able to work.

p12tic 5y ago

I agree that just buying the most expensive monitor is waste of resources. On the other hand, I think price shouldn't even come into the picture when deciding on basic things, such as the number of monitors or whether to choose 4K monitor or just FHD. I guess the most reasonable approach is to select a set of models that pass the requirements and only then think about the price. Some requirements are really expensive though. If one insists on OLED and wants to fit 3 4K monitors side by side the full setup cost is around $10k.