17 ms·

Ottawa has lost control of itself

28 points by kkwteh 5y ago

effie 5y ago
> "the army should deal with peaceful protestors. I'm normal" -- poignant summary of the thread by one of its participants
mostertoaster 5y ago
What I find really funny about this twitter thread is that there is an obvious solution, to the immediate problem; just get rid of the mandates. Problem solved. Except people have now learned they can stand up to “the man” in charge and win. Which might be why they’d let the insanity continue.
prisout64 5y ago
Do you know what he is referring to? Some kind of protest?
- MrDOS 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Convoy_2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Convoy_2022
  - karmakaze 5y ago
    This is the part I was curious about. > When asked in the House of Commons to produce data linking truckers to COVID-19 infections in Canada, neither the minister of health Jean-Yves Duclos nor the chief public health officer Theresa Tam were able to do so.[34]
    - voisin 5y ago
      I think it was a sense of fairness that there was an exemption that probably shouldn’t have ever existed.
      - yucky 5y ago
        The exemption, or the mandate? The data shows no correlation with the mandates and transmission rates, right?
        voisin 5y ago
        They are protesting the fact that the exemption from the mandate was lifted. Maybe not for limiting transmission but not filling up hospitals with the unvaccinated + infected is a valid public health initiative.
jleyank 5y ago
People have noticed that the way the current protest is being handled is rather different than previous ones. And how the Conservatives have forgotten their law and order speeches from 2020…. In the age of the internet, I’m sure these points will be endlessly reminded to them comes an election. Along with marketing and other aid being provided to them. None of this, unfortunately, is surprising.
nigerian1981 5y ago
Officers say their strategy has been to defuse tensions, but critics say that other demonstrations, including those by Indigenous peoples, are often met with force. “It’s OK if angry white men do it, because they are politically aligned with you, but it’s not OK if Indigenous people peacefully protect their own rights,” Indigenous lawyer and professor Pam Palmater told APTN News
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  [flagged]
version_five 5y ago
What do these people (like the twitter poster) think a protest is? It's supposed to be something people can't ignore. The few that are loudly complaining about the protest appear to believe we should never speak up no matter how badly the government and our fellow citizens treat us. And instead of actually engaging with the subject of the protest - intrusive mandates and documentation requests - they would rather either complain about petty things like honking, or somehow imagine the government has lost control of the country because some truckers parked downtown for a few days. In any case, I think the freaking out by a select few we've seen over this is so ridiculous that it hopefully supports the trucker's case in the minds of normal people here
- calyth2018 5y ago
  You know they're blasting air horns in residential streets, right? Air horns that are 100-120db range, typically found on semis, not counting aftermarket soupped up ones. https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/health-safety/reports/ears.html https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/servi... At 100db, 24 minutes of exposure within 24 hours is considered damaging to hearing. At 120dB, it's basically instantaneous damage to hearing. And lot of them have been doing that to harass residents. If I walk down the street, jab something in someone's ear and damage their hearing, I'd be rightfully charge with assault (probably with a weapon). How is this any different? This city is well versed in protest, even protests that could shutdown Wellington st, right in front of the hill. It's naive, at the very minimum, to even let these vehicles park right up the hill and blare their horns day and night. If you think this is just a minor inconvenience, come to downtown and stand next to one of these trucks when the air horn goes off.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - mostertoaster 5y ago
    Standing next to one of those trucks during the protest, is like standing in a building alone in the midst of George Floyd protests, except you get engulfed in flames instead of your ear drums ruined. And getting your ear drums ruined is no happy thing. Which is why it is crazy silencers are illegal. :)
HideousKojima 5y ago
>5. As far as I can tell, no one knows what to do about this. You could just, y'know, drop the mandates and whatnot.
- voisin 5y ago
  The protest is due to the _exemptions_ to the mandates (which applied only to long haul truckers) being removed. Are you suggesting all mask and vaccine mandates be removed or that a small portion of the populace (a small portion of the truckers that refuse to get vaccinated) be granted special privileges again?
  - emerged 5y ago
    I wouldn’t consider the ability to work for a living, when you have no other viable alternatives, to be a special privilege. It should be the least a government provides.
    - voisin 5y ago
      “No other viable alternatives” is a funny way of phrasing getting a free, almost painless vaccination and wearing a mask. It is literally the least a person can do to show they have signed the social contract. I suppose it isn’t surprising at all that the same people that refuse to pay such low table stakes also show complete disdain for others by turning their protest into a 24/7 cacophony of 120dB horns blaring and racist signage.
      - effie 5y ago
        Getting the vaccine has health risks and it would mean a "kiss the ring" submission to untrusted power to many people. Bioethics is clearly on their side - forcing a human to undergo any medical procedure against their will supposedly to benefit other people is a violation of that human's basic rights.
        voisin 5y ago
bzaya 5y ago
It is interesting to read individual perspectives. This one is firmly for the non-working-class establishment, but there are many others who say the exact opposite. In the days when we still had a reliable press with actual reporters on the ground, we'd know more. Nowadays it comes down to one side displaying five people with a confederate flag and the other side displaying five people with a placard calling the truckers "stupid inbreds" (Trudeau won't complain about the latter).
fvdessen 5y ago
What was the rationale behind the mandatory vaccination of truckers ? They don’t seem to be a very high risk group, and the pandemic is now past the final wave. Seems like a strange policy to me
- treesknees 5y ago
  How would anyone know when the "final" wave has occurred? I've seen no evidence claiming anyone has any real idea that the pandemic is over. All of the evidence so far is that a variant can pop up and cause an additional wave (see: Delta, Omicron.) Has there been any evidence presented anywhere to suggest that the virus will stop mutating and spreading among the world's mostly unvaccinated populations?
- bzaya 5y ago
  I think it is not actual mandatory vaccination, but two weeks of quarantine at the border if unvaccinated. Which makes them de facto unemployed. Indeed truckers are solitary and not in a risk group, so Trudeau is playing a game of chicken (pun intended, since he's hiding) instead of just lifting all mandates like several European countries. In the U.S., reversing the COVID policies seems to be prepared gradually by priming public opinion via the usual outlets (NYT, WaPo, etc.). It is aided by the Ukraine and ISIS strike diversions. Perhaps Trudeau wants to ride this one out until the U.S. Democrats are lifting all restrictions.
k12sosse 5y ago
Things have never been better for me, but then again I don't live in Ottawa or Toronto. The constant horns (from these truckers in Ottawa suburbs) would suck, I'm surprised nobodys been killed over that, yet. Sleep deprivation ain't no joke. Imagine how proud Pierre "just watch me" Trudeau must be, looking down on his son be so afraid of saying the wrong thing or hurting someone's feelings, that he is paralyzed into ineffectiveness. Just do something, anything, and stand up for yourself. Just make sure you do it with the best interest of the nation in mind and the support will follow. I don't love or hate any particular leader, but I definitely respect the ones that make confident choices in times of need.
- throwoutway 5y ago
  You’re not even advocating for anything specific except action. Are you encouraging Trudeau to attack the citizens of Ottawa? I hope not
- TMWNN 5y ago
  >Imagine how proud Pierre "just watch me" Trudeau must be, looking down on his son be so afraid of saying the wrong thing or hurting someone's feelings, that he is paralyzed into ineffectiveness. Non-Canadians may not know that Justin Trudeau went into hiding because of the Ottawa protests. Seriously. 4chan is, as usual, on the case, and found Trudeau in Luskville, Quebec. <https://np.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/sj88d9/a_story_of_weaponized_autism_in_two_parts/ https://np.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/sj88d9/a_story_of_wea...>
rmm 5y ago
Isn't this the purpose of a protest? I mean how much better can it get? A peaceful protest by a portion of the population that feels wronged? Government for the people and all that
- MrDOS 5y ago
  https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/geiger-bardswich-but-did-he-hit-you-the-parallels-between-the-freedom-convoy-and-domestic-violence https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/geiger-bardswich-but-did-h... It is far from peaceful.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
bjornsing 5y ago
A government has “lost control” to peaceful protest? I don’t know, and haven’t been following this closely, but it sounds kind of like… democracy working.
will4274 5y ago
There are two types of countries in the world... Those where people can assemble in the capitol and those where people cannot. In general, the former is better than the latter.
- voisin 5y ago
  I think 99% of the issue is the horns. I think they could snarl traffic and protest outside Parliament for the next year and everyone would support them. Nearly all the anger is directed at the horns at all hours.
hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
He is suggesting that the solution is to ask the intervention of the military. That's nuts! What about Trudeau admitting he made a mistake, saying he's sorry and asking everybody to go home? Unless he wants to fight his own citizens over his ideas using an army (which should not be used for this purpose).
- voisin 5y ago
  Did he make a mistake? Is that the takeaway from the protests that involve only a small portion of those for whom the new rules apply?
  - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
    Well, yes, the government should be aware of how far they can push their laws before a backlash. Now we have an absurd situation where some countries declare the end of pandemic and remove the last limitations and other countries try to enforce new rules. A good ruler knows how far they can go, and what to do once they realize they've gone too far.

28 points by kkwteh 5y ago

> "the army should deal with peaceful protestors. I'm normal" -- poignant summary of the thread by one of its participants

mostertoaster 5y ago

What I find really funny about this twitter thread is that there is an obvious solution, to the immediate problem; just get rid of the mandates. Problem solved. Except people have now learned they can stand up to “the man” in charge and win. Which might be why they’d let the insanity continue.

prisout64 5y ago

Do you know what he is referring to? Some kind of protest?

MrDOS 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Convoy_2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Convoy_2022
- karmakaze 5y ago
  This is the part I was curious about. > When asked in the House of Commons to produce data linking truckers to COVID-19 infections in Canada, neither the minister of health Jean-Yves Duclos nor the chief public health officer Theresa Tam were able to do so.[34]
  - voisin 5y ago
    I think it was a sense of fairness that there was an exemption that probably shouldn’t have ever existed.
    - yucky 5y ago
      The exemption, or the mandate? The data shows no correlation with the mandates and transmission rates, right?
      - voisin 5y ago
        They are protesting the fact that the exemption from the mandate was lifted. Maybe not for limiting transmission but not filling up hospitals with the unvaccinated + infected is a valid public health initiative.

jleyank 5y ago

People have noticed that the way the current protest is being handled is rather different than previous ones. And how the Conservatives have forgotten their law and order speeches from 2020…. In the age of the internet, I’m sure these points will be endlessly reminded to them comes an election. Along with marketing and other aid being provided to them. None of this, unfortunately, is surprising.

nigerian1981 5y ago

Officers say their strategy has been to defuse tensions, but critics say that other demonstrations, including those by Indigenous peoples, are often met with force. “It’s OK if angry white men do it, because they are politically aligned with you, but it’s not OK if Indigenous people peacefully protect their own rights,” Indigenous lawyer and professor Pam Palmater told APTN News

HideousKojima 5y ago
[flagged]

version_five 5y ago

What do these people (like the twitter poster) think a protest is? It's supposed to be something people can't ignore. The few that are loudly complaining about the protest appear to believe we should never speak up no matter how badly the government and our fellow citizens treat us. And instead of actually engaging with the subject of the protest - intrusive mandates and documentation requests - they would rather either complain about petty things like honking, or somehow imagine the government has lost control of the country because some truckers parked downtown for a few days. In any case, I think the freaking out by a select few we've seen over this is so ridiculous that it hopefully supports the trucker's case in the minds of normal people here

calyth2018 5y ago
You know they're blasting air horns in residential streets, right? Air horns that are 100-120db range, typically found on semis, not counting aftermarket soupped up ones. https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/health-safety/reports/ears.html https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/servi... At 100db, 24 minutes of exposure within 24 hours is considered damaging to hearing. At 120dB, it's basically instantaneous damage to hearing. And lot of them have been doing that to harass residents. If I walk down the street, jab something in someone's ear and damage their hearing, I'd be rightfully charge with assault (probably with a weapon). How is this any different? This city is well versed in protest, even protests that could shutdown Wellington st, right in front of the hill. It's naive, at the very minimum, to even let these vehicles park right up the hill and blare their horns day and night. If you think this is just a minor inconvenience, come to downtown and stand next to one of these trucks when the air horn goes off.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mostertoaster 5y ago
  Standing next to one of those trucks during the protest, is like standing in a building alone in the midst of George Floyd protests, except you get engulfed in flames instead of your ear drums ruined. And getting your ear drums ruined is no happy thing. Which is why it is crazy silencers are illegal. :)

HideousKojima 5y ago

>5. As far as I can tell, no one knows what to do about this. You could just, y'know, drop the mandates and whatnot.

voisin 5y ago
The protest is due to the _exemptions_ to the mandates (which applied only to long haul truckers) being removed. Are you suggesting all mask and vaccine mandates be removed or that a small portion of the populace (a small portion of the truckers that refuse to get vaccinated) be granted special privileges again?
- emerged 5y ago
  I wouldn’t consider the ability to work for a living, when you have no other viable alternatives, to be a special privilege. It should be the least a government provides.
  - voisin 5y ago
    “No other viable alternatives” is a funny way of phrasing getting a free, almost painless vaccination and wearing a mask. It is literally the least a person can do to show they have signed the social contract. I suppose it isn’t surprising at all that the same people that refuse to pay such low table stakes also show complete disdain for others by turning their protest into a 24/7 cacophony of 120dB horns blaring and racist signage.
    - effie 5y ago
      Getting the vaccine has health risks and it would mean a "kiss the ring" submission to untrusted power to many people. Bioethics is clearly on their side - forcing a human to undergo any medical procedure against their will supposedly to benefit other people is a violation of that human's basic rights.
      - voisin 5y ago

bzaya 5y ago

It is interesting to read individual perspectives. This one is firmly for the non-working-class establishment, but there are many others who say the exact opposite. In the days when we still had a reliable press with actual reporters on the ground, we'd know more. Nowadays it comes down to one side displaying five people with a confederate flag and the other side displaying five people with a placard calling the truckers "stupid inbreds" (Trudeau won't complain about the latter).

fvdessen 5y ago

What was the rationale behind the mandatory vaccination of truckers ? They don’t seem to be a very high risk group, and the pandemic is now past the final wave. Seems like a strange policy to me

treesknees 5y ago
How would anyone know when the "final" wave has occurred? I've seen no evidence claiming anyone has any real idea that the pandemic is over. All of the evidence so far is that a variant can pop up and cause an additional wave (see: Delta, Omicron.) Has there been any evidence presented anywhere to suggest that the virus will stop mutating and spreading among the world's mostly unvaccinated populations?
bzaya 5y ago
I think it is not actual mandatory vaccination, but two weeks of quarantine at the border if unvaccinated. Which makes them de facto unemployed. Indeed truckers are solitary and not in a risk group, so Trudeau is playing a game of chicken (pun intended, since he's hiding) instead of just lifting all mandates like several European countries. In the U.S., reversing the COVID policies seems to be prepared gradually by priming public opinion via the usual outlets (NYT, WaPo, etc.). It is aided by the Ukraine and ISIS strike diversions. Perhaps Trudeau wants to ride this one out until the U.S. Democrats are lifting all restrictions.

k12sosse 5y ago

Things have never been better for me, but then again I don't live in Ottawa or Toronto. The constant horns (from these truckers in Ottawa suburbs) would suck, I'm surprised nobodys been killed over that, yet. Sleep deprivation ain't no joke. Imagine how proud Pierre "just watch me" Trudeau must be, looking down on his son be so afraid of saying the wrong thing or hurting someone's feelings, that he is paralyzed into ineffectiveness. Just do something, anything, and stand up for yourself. Just make sure you do it with the best interest of the nation in mind and the support will follow. I don't love or hate any particular leader, but I definitely respect the ones that make confident choices in times of need.

throwoutway 5y ago
You’re not even advocating for anything specific except action. Are you encouraging Trudeau to attack the citizens of Ottawa? I hope not
TMWNN 5y ago
>Imagine how proud Pierre "just watch me" Trudeau must be, looking down on his son be so afraid of saying the wrong thing or hurting someone's feelings, that he is paralyzed into ineffectiveness. Non-Canadians may not know that Justin Trudeau went into hiding because of the Ottawa protests. Seriously. 4chan is, as usual, on the case, and found Trudeau in Luskville, Quebec. <https://np.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/sj88d9/a_story_of_weaponized_autism_in_two_parts/ https://np.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/sj88d9/a_story_of_wea...>

rmm 5y ago

Isn't this the purpose of a protest? I mean how much better can it get? A peaceful protest by a portion of the population that feels wronged? Government for the people and all that

MrDOS 5y ago
https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/geiger-bardswich-but-did-he-hit-you-the-parallels-between-the-freedom-convoy-and-domestic-violence https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/geiger-bardswich-but-did-h... It is far from peaceful.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

bjornsing 5y ago

A government has “lost control” to peaceful protest? I don’t know, and haven’t been following this closely, but it sounds kind of like… democracy working.

will4274 5y ago

There are two types of countries in the world... Those where people can assemble in the capitol and those where people cannot. In general, the former is better than the latter.

voisin 5y ago
I think 99% of the issue is the horns. I think they could snarl traffic and protest outside Parliament for the next year and everyone would support them. Nearly all the anger is directed at the horns at all hours.

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

He is suggesting that the solution is to ask the intervention of the military. That's nuts! What about Trudeau admitting he made a mistake, saying he's sorry and asking everybody to go home? Unless he wants to fight his own citizens over his ideas using an army (which should not be used for this purpose).

voisin 5y ago
Did he make a mistake? Is that the takeaway from the protests that involve only a small portion of those for whom the new rules apply?
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  Well, yes, the government should be aware of how far they can push their laws before a backlash. Now we have an absurd situation where some countries declare the end of pandemic and remove the last limitations and other countries try to enforce new rules. A good ruler knows how far they can go, and what to do once they realize they've gone too far.