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Laws shouldn't exist just because people think they'd be a good idea. There's also no evidence that voter ID laws prevent voter fraud, or even that voter fraud

Laws shouldn't exist just because people think they'd be a good idea. There's also no evidence that voter ID laws prevent voter fraud, or even that voter fraud happens at any meaningful rate. Advocating for unnecessary restrictions without evidence is dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

slibhb 5y ago
I'm not strongly in favor of voter id laws (the deep blue area I live in has them). I just think it's dishonest to refer to them as "voter suppression". And I agree that there's no evidence of substantial voter fraud.
- matteotom 5y ago
  Making it harder for people to vote is literally voter suppression. You might argue that it is ineffective voter suppression, but I don't think you can argue that adding unnecessary steps to voting, and making penalties for making mistakes harsher while making it easier to make mistakes, is anything else.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    > Making it harder for people to vote is literally voter suppression As I said upthread, it's "literally true but dishonest". Barring children from voting is literally voter suppression but calling it that is stupid. > I don't think you can argue that adding unnecessary steps to voting, and making penalties for making mistakes harsher while making it easier to make mistakes, is anything else. Reasonable people can disagree over whether showing an id to vote is "unnecessary". The fact remains that voter id laws are not unreasonable, not beyond the pale, most Americans support them, and this whole thing is a manufactured political drama.
    - nwiswell 5y ago
      > Barring children from voting is literally voter suppression Actually, no, it's not. Maybe this is pedantic, but children are not, and have never been, putative voters and therefore are not being suppressed. Minority groups less likely to have IDs are voters, however. 8% of white Americans do not have government photo ID, whereas 25% of African-American citizens do not[1]. [1] https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-...
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
kangaroozach 5y ago
There is no evidence that someone will ever try to rob your house. You should remove the lock on your door.
- Osiris 5y ago
  There is plenty of evidence that people's houses get robbed. Also, where I grew up we literally never locked our doors. Ever. Never got anything stolen.

slibhb 5y ago

I'm not strongly in favor of voter id laws (the deep blue area I live in has them). I just think it's dishonest to refer to them as "voter suppression". And I agree that there's no evidence of substantial voter fraud.

matteotom 5y ago
Making it harder for people to vote is literally voter suppression. You might argue that it is ineffective voter suppression, but I don't think you can argue that adding unnecessary steps to voting, and making penalties for making mistakes harsher while making it easier to make mistakes, is anything else.
- slibhb 5y ago
  > Making it harder for people to vote is literally voter suppression As I said upthread, it's "literally true but dishonest". Barring children from voting is literally voter suppression but calling it that is stupid. > I don't think you can argue that adding unnecessary steps to voting, and making penalties for making mistakes harsher while making it easier to make mistakes, is anything else. Reasonable people can disagree over whether showing an id to vote is "unnecessary". The fact remains that voter id laws are not unreasonable, not beyond the pale, most Americans support them, and this whole thing is a manufactured political drama.
  - nwiswell 5y ago
    > Barring children from voting is literally voter suppression Actually, no, it's not. Maybe this is pedantic, but children are not, and have never been, putative voters and therefore are not being suppressed. Minority groups less likely to have IDs are voters, however. 8% of white Americans do not have government photo ID, whereas 25% of African-American citizens do not[1]. [1] https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

kangaroozach 5y ago

There is no evidence that someone will ever try to rob your house. You should remove the lock on your door.

Osiris 5y ago
There is plenty of evidence that people's houses get robbed. Also, where I grew up we literally never locked our doors. Ever. Never got anything stolen.