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I recently got a 27" 4k monitor that I use at 2x scaling, and I'm never going back to fewer pixels per inch. When I now have to look at monitors with a lower P

by Okkef 5y ago

I recently got a 27" 4k monitor that I use at 2x scaling, and I'm never going back to fewer pixels per inch. When I now have to look at monitors with a lower PPIU it hurts my eyes. I can see the individual pixels very clearly and letters are blurry. Much less eyestrain on 4k, can recommend!

chrisseaton 5y ago
Funny I have a 27" 4k and it's low resolution compared to for example a basic MacBook Pro laptop screen.
- hyakosm 5y ago
  The lack of options for 27 inch 5K monitors is disappointing. There is nothing cheaper than the old Ultrafine 5K.
  - formerly_proven 5y ago
    There used to be more options in that market segment but lack of interest kinda made them extinct.
    - BeFlatXIII 5y ago
      Gamers and business buyers drive the market. Neither care about pixel density.
      - glandium 5y ago
        What baffles my mind is that retina densities are so much better for CJK languages, and yet, we don't see more retina densities in those markets. They must like the pixel blobs for characters with large number of strokes... /s
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        Business buyers care about text... which is better with higher pixel density.
        SirZimzim 5y ago
        Yes, but the difference doesn't have any real impact on productivity.
        adhesive_wombat 5y ago
        Business users care about that. Having used many monitors in businesses, I can only assume that the buyers do not.
MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
Even considering a resolution below 4k on a large monitor is absurd. This invalidated the whole article for me.
- fwoty 5y ago
  For text rendering, 4k doesn't really work for 27" or bigger. It'd work for 24" because you could do true @2x, but there aren't many out there. For 27", besides the UltraFine 5k, I'd prefer just using @1x with 1440p too.
  - krrrh 5y ago
    A preference for 24” or 27” at 4k is also largely impacted by how far away you position the monitor from your face.
    - fwoty 5y ago
      I suppose if you put it quite far away, a 27" 4k @2x scaling would work well. It'd feel like a 24" 1080p monitor with retina sharpness. For all the folks confused why I'm saying you don't want a 27" 4k monitor for text, it's because the PPI isn't nicely sized for 1x or 2x, which means you have to set it to scaling that rounds and blurs subpixels. More info: https://www.caseyliss.com/2017/5/17/retina-monitors https://www.caseyliss.com/2017/5/17/retina-monitors By the way, I'm sure most 27" 4k monitors look fantastic and you should enjoy them! Especially if you don't mind or notice the scaling rounding or if you run it @2x and like the 1080p real estate.
      - michaelmrose 5y ago
        > For all the folks confused why I'm saying you don't want a 27" 4k monitor for text, it's because the PPI isn't nicely sized for 1x or 2x, which means you have to set it to scaling that rounds and blurs subpixels. This appears to be either a misunderstanding or a description of a deficiency in your environment for example Apple devices. For text there are 2 factors that control its size the designated size in points and for apps not sophisticated enough to scale elements appropriately according to DPI a scaling factor. You appear to be suggesting that if you only had one knob you would be stuck with text that was either too small or too big however one or an application can adjust the size of the text independent of an integer scaling factor to produce a desirable end result. The same thing is true of images which are already trivially displayed at a different absolute sizes like every image on your browser ever. For example on Linux most apps you are liable to run that aren't simplistic text apps are liable to be either QT or GTK. QT apps intelligently scale, GTK apps rely on a scaling factor one can set for example with an environmental variable. In both cases there is a setting for font size that effects 90% of apps of that stripe the minority having their own configuration. It is incredibly trivial to have an environment that looks nice at any size.
odshoifsdhfs 5y ago
I have one like that, and having a MBP retina driving it below it, I can't not notice the pixels on the 4k monitor. I wish we could have more options either 24@4K or 27@5K. Having a retina display next to it makes the differences quite apparent.
- amatheus 5y ago
  I have two 24@4K and it's great. Unfortunately, Dell stopped making this model (P2415Q), in fact the second one I bought used because Dell had no more stock.
- dan1234 5y ago
  I’d second the more 24”@4ks! I’ve had 2x24” 1080ps for years, and I really think they’re the sweet spot for my setup. I think 2x27” will be too large, and the super wide monitors lose too much real estate vs 2x monitors.
  - glandium 5y ago
    I have 2x24" 1920x1200s (16:10) and would love 4ks instead... if they were 24" and 16:10...
secondcoming 5y ago
Funny, I'm the opposite. I don't think the price increase for 4k is worth the PPI gain. I 'upgraded' to [0] and I would have stuck with 2k but my laptop was 4k (also not worth it IMO) and having a thunderbolt connection in the monitor is quite useful. [0] https://www.samsung.com/uk/monitors/high-resolution/tu87f-32-inch-uhd-4k-thunderbolt-lf32tu870vrxxu/ https://www.samsung.com/uk/monitors/high-resolution/tu87f-32...
phkahler 5y ago
>> 4k monitor that I use at 2x scaling, and I'm never going back to fewer pixels per inch. Doesn't that scaling make it effectively 1080? I use a 55" curved 4k TV and will never go back. The ability to "spread stuff out on the desktop" is unmatched.
- colordrops 5y ago
  Depends on the scaling. They are probably not talking about pixel scaling, but font and UI scaling, which means things stay just as sharp when scaled up.
  - fwoty 5y ago
    I don't think that's possible? Say if you had a perfect 1px wide black line @1x and then you change UI scaling set to 1.5, you now have a 1.5px (physical) wide line. Which means you'll get blurring.
    - colordrops 5y ago
      If you are displaying images with one pixel lines, yes. Buy how often do you view an image scaled to exactly one image pixel per screen pixel. And when it comes to UI and font toolkits, they account for variable scaling aren't usually drawing single pixel features. Anyway I haven't noticed any blurring. You'll only really get noticable blurring if you render at say 1x and display at more than 1x because the detail just isn't there.
      - fwoty 5y ago
        I think this always applies. For instance the border on this textarea is 1px. There's nothing the OS can do, it's a physical issue. If UI scaling is 1.5, the correct answer for the size of the border is now 1.5 physical pixels. The best you can do is color the first pixel black and the second pixel the average of the first and third pixels. I might be wrong on this but I can't imagine what else it could do (other than mis-sizing the element). I do agree that it probably looks fine and you wouldn't actually notice, unless you had an @2x monitor right next to it (of which there are sadly very few options)
wruza 5y ago
Don’t try 144hz then, because it is as addictive, but no cheap 4k/144hz options exist yet in IPS category (although the situation is much better than say 4-5 years ago).
conartist 5y ago
I've been on the fence about updating to 4K from an Ultrawide but the eye strain is the big reason I want to.

by Okkef 5y ago

chrisseaton 5y ago

Funny I have a 27" 4k and it's low resolution compared to for example a basic MacBook Pro laptop screen.

hyakosm 5y ago
The lack of options for 27 inch 5K monitors is disappointing. There is nothing cheaper than the old Ultrafine 5K.
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  There used to be more options in that market segment but lack of interest kinda made them extinct.
  - BeFlatXIII 5y ago
    Gamers and business buyers drive the market. Neither care about pixel density.
    - glandium 5y ago
      What baffles my mind is that retina densities are so much better for CJK languages, and yet, we don't see more retina densities in those markets. They must like the pixel blobs for characters with large number of strokes... /s
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      Business buyers care about text... which is better with higher pixel density.
      - SirZimzim 5y ago
        Yes, but the difference doesn't have any real impact on productivity.
      - adhesive_wombat 5y ago
        Business users care about that. Having used many monitors in businesses, I can only assume that the buyers do not.

MrBuddyCasino 5y ago

Even considering a resolution below 4k on a large monitor is absurd. This invalidated the whole article for me.

fwoty 5y ago
For text rendering, 4k doesn't really work for 27" or bigger. It'd work for 24" because you could do true @2x, but there aren't many out there. For 27", besides the UltraFine 5k, I'd prefer just using @1x with 1440p too.
- krrrh 5y ago
  A preference for 24” or 27” at 4k is also largely impacted by how far away you position the monitor from your face.
  - fwoty 5y ago
    I suppose if you put it quite far away, a 27" 4k @2x scaling would work well. It'd feel like a 24" 1080p monitor with retina sharpness. For all the folks confused why I'm saying you don't want a 27" 4k monitor for text, it's because the PPI isn't nicely sized for 1x or 2x, which means you have to set it to scaling that rounds and blurs subpixels. More info: https://www.caseyliss.com/2017/5/17/retina-monitors https://www.caseyliss.com/2017/5/17/retina-monitors By the way, I'm sure most 27" 4k monitors look fantastic and you should enjoy them! Especially if you don't mind or notice the scaling rounding or if you run it @2x and like the 1080p real estate.
    - michaelmrose 5y ago
      > For all the folks confused why I'm saying you don't want a 27" 4k monitor for text, it's because the PPI isn't nicely sized for 1x or 2x, which means you have to set it to scaling that rounds and blurs subpixels. This appears to be either a misunderstanding or a description of a deficiency in your environment for example Apple devices. For text there are 2 factors that control its size the designated size in points and for apps not sophisticated enough to scale elements appropriately according to DPI a scaling factor. You appear to be suggesting that if you only had one knob you would be stuck with text that was either too small or too big however one or an application can adjust the size of the text independent of an integer scaling factor to produce a desirable end result. The same thing is true of images which are already trivially displayed at a different absolute sizes like every image on your browser ever. For example on Linux most apps you are liable to run that aren't simplistic text apps are liable to be either QT or GTK. QT apps intelligently scale, GTK apps rely on a scaling factor one can set for example with an environmental variable. In both cases there is a setting for font size that effects 90% of apps of that stripe the minority having their own configuration. It is incredibly trivial to have an environment that looks nice at any size.

odshoifsdhfs 5y ago

I have one like that, and having a MBP retina driving it below it, I can't not notice the pixels on the 4k monitor. I wish we could have more options either 24@4K or 27@5K. Having a retina display next to it makes the differences quite apparent.

amatheus 5y ago
I have two 24@4K and it's great. Unfortunately, Dell stopped making this model (P2415Q), in fact the second one I bought used because Dell had no more stock.
dan1234 5y ago
I’d second the more 24”@4ks! I’ve had 2x24” 1080ps for years, and I really think they’re the sweet spot for my setup. I think 2x27” will be too large, and the super wide monitors lose too much real estate vs 2x monitors.
- glandium 5y ago
  I have 2x24" 1920x1200s (16:10) and would love 4ks instead... if they were 24" and 16:10...

secondcoming 5y ago

Funny, I'm the opposite. I don't think the price increase for 4k is worth the PPI gain. I 'upgraded' to [0] and I would have stuck with 2k but my laptop was 4k (also not worth it IMO) and having a thunderbolt connection in the monitor is quite useful. [0] https://www.samsung.com/uk/monitors/high-resolution/tu87f-32-inch-uhd-4k-thunderbolt-lf32tu870vrxxu/ https://www.samsung.com/uk/monitors/high-resolution/tu87f-32...

phkahler 5y ago

>> 4k monitor that I use at 2x scaling, and I'm never going back to fewer pixels per inch. Doesn't that scaling make it effectively 1080? I use a 55" curved 4k TV and will never go back. The ability to "spread stuff out on the desktop" is unmatched.

colordrops 5y ago
Depends on the scaling. They are probably not talking about pixel scaling, but font and UI scaling, which means things stay just as sharp when scaled up.
- fwoty 5y ago
  I don't think that's possible? Say if you had a perfect 1px wide black line @1x and then you change UI scaling set to 1.5, you now have a 1.5px (physical) wide line. Which means you'll get blurring.
  - colordrops 5y ago
    If you are displaying images with one pixel lines, yes. Buy how often do you view an image scaled to exactly one image pixel per screen pixel. And when it comes to UI and font toolkits, they account for variable scaling aren't usually drawing single pixel features. Anyway I haven't noticed any blurring. You'll only really get noticable blurring if you render at say 1x and display at more than 1x because the detail just isn't there.
    - fwoty 5y ago
      I think this always applies. For instance the border on this textarea is 1px. There's nothing the OS can do, it's a physical issue. If UI scaling is 1.5, the correct answer for the size of the border is now 1.5 physical pixels. The best you can do is color the first pixel black and the second pixel the average of the first and third pixels. I might be wrong on this but I can't imagine what else it could do (other than mis-sizing the element). I do agree that it probably looks fine and you wouldn't actually notice, unless you had an @2x monitor right next to it (of which there are sadly very few options)

wruza 5y ago

Don’t try 144hz then, because it is as addictive, but no cheap 4k/144hz options exist yet in IPS category (although the situation is much better than say 4-5 years ago).

conartist 5y ago

I've been on the fence about updating to 4K from an Ultrawide but the eye strain is the big reason I want to.