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I'm not sure that CAHSR is an example of why we can't build infrastructure. They're building it. There are YouTubers that have done drone flyovers of most of

I'm not sure that CAHSR is an example of why we can't build infrastructure. They're building it. There are YouTubers that have done drone flyovers of most of the first construction packages, and progress is being made pretty quickly. I have a feeling that too much has been done to cancel the project now. The corresponding Bay Area projects seem to be proceeding as well (CalMod, CalTrain electrification, etc). Texas Central also seems to be making progress on Dallas-Houston high speed rail. That said, I agree that the taxpayers don't feel like giving billions of dollars to BNSF and Union Pacific, so they probably won't electrify until there is no other option. Fuel costs just aren't high enough to make it profitable, and the environmental externalities are still free. (But, of course, you'd rather see a 500 car freight train burning fossil fuels than 500 tractor trailers driving down the interstate burning fossil fuels.)

AniseAbyss 5y ago
The US government used to be able to create top notch infrastructure but something seemed to just break in the 1970s/80s. Unless things get so catastrophically bad (see Katrina) it is impossible to convince anyone to spend money.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  > it is impossible to convince anyone to spend money. They don't need to be convinced to spend money. They are spending more than ever. But you're dead on about it all being crisis-driven now. Or maybe it always was? WWII was clearly that, then the cold war/space race, then Star Wars, then GWAT (or GWOT?) -- Global War Against/On Terrorism, and now Covid - Build Back Better. Crisis spending is perfect cover for pork and grift, because anyone who questions it can be painted as unpatriotic.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    The fact that crisis-driven projects are successful points to the problem: delays. In any sufficiently big project, I'm coming around to the opinion that there's some amount of timeline that results in an effective "never". I think it's just that at some point, people stop caring? Or at least feeling like they have any motivation to hustle? And once that happens, the end result in lethargy and a grinding halt to actual progress. Even if checklist items seem to be getting ticked off.
- jrockway 5y ago
  The government is spending money on infrastructure, it's just not very good infrastructure. You can open up any state's department of transportation website and find billions of dollars worth of ongoing projects for widening roads. These are not the projects people dream about, but they do satisfy the people that are invested in the suburbs. A lot of advocacy revolves around "live in a dense urban core, work in a dense urban core, and travel to other dense urban cores", and people just aren't doing that, so it does make some sense that politicians with 2 year terms aren't champing at the bit to do those projects instead of "widen congested freeway" (even though we know that never solves the problem).
ErikCorry 5y ago
It's pretty troubled project. Way over budget and when it opens in 2025 you will be able to go only as far as Bakersfield. The last section to LA is still in "environmental review" (ie fighting the Nimbies).
- jrockway 5y ago
  Yeah, that's a good assessment. It is troubled, but I don't think you can do big projects without trouble. Think about how high tensions can get when planning a two week software engineering sprint. Now imagine a project that's a million times bigger than that, where people will have their houses torn down. There's going to be some trouble. What is amazing that despite the trouble, some progress is being made. (There are lots of things working against CAHSR. The route has been chosen politically rather than to minimize SFO-LAX travel times. Given infinite budget, you travelers on that route don't want to go through Bakersfield, as it's out of the way. And, the SFO/LAX city pair is already not a particularly optimal pair, it is kind of reaching the high end of distances that make high-speed rail the best travel option. That's why I look at Texas Central and Brightline for models of what to do in the future. Texas Central is a really good city pairing, in a region where their 16 lane highways can't handle the traffic volume. But I temper my enthusiasm in that not a lot of construction work has been done; I can't find any updates newer than September 2021 when the CEO said pessimistically that there is only a 50/50 chance that construction will start in the next 6 months. We're near the end of those 6 months.)
- ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
  At this point I’m just glad Caltrain is finally getting electrified.
  - Gibbon1 5y ago
    I just saw a blurb that they've just finished pouring the last foundation for the overhead catenary system. Currently half of the work going on right now is grade separation that includes both the future high speed rail line and the current freight rail line. So there is some method to their madness. The grade separation provides immediate benefits. Lot of info linked here https://www.buildhsr.com/ https://www.buildhsr.com/

AniseAbyss 5y ago

The US government used to be able to create top notch infrastructure but something seemed to just break in the 1970s/80s. Unless things get so catastrophically bad (see Katrina) it is impossible to convince anyone to spend money.

throwawayboise 5y ago
> it is impossible to convince anyone to spend money. They don't need to be convinced to spend money. They are spending more than ever. But you're dead on about it all being crisis-driven now. Or maybe it always was? WWII was clearly that, then the cold war/space race, then Star Wars, then GWAT (or GWOT?) -- Global War Against/On Terrorism, and now Covid - Build Back Better. Crisis spending is perfect cover for pork and grift, because anyone who questions it can be painted as unpatriotic.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  The fact that crisis-driven projects are successful points to the problem: delays. In any sufficiently big project, I'm coming around to the opinion that there's some amount of timeline that results in an effective "never". I think it's just that at some point, people stop caring? Or at least feeling like they have any motivation to hustle? And once that happens, the end result in lethargy and a grinding halt to actual progress. Even if checklist items seem to be getting ticked off.
jrockway 5y ago
The government is spending money on infrastructure, it's just not very good infrastructure. You can open up any state's department of transportation website and find billions of dollars worth of ongoing projects for widening roads. These are not the projects people dream about, but they do satisfy the people that are invested in the suburbs. A lot of advocacy revolves around "live in a dense urban core, work in a dense urban core, and travel to other dense urban cores", and people just aren't doing that, so it does make some sense that politicians with 2 year terms aren't champing at the bit to do those projects instead of "widen congested freeway" (even though we know that never solves the problem).

ErikCorry 5y ago

It's pretty troubled project. Way over budget and when it opens in 2025 you will be able to go only as far as Bakersfield. The last section to LA is still in "environmental review" (ie fighting the Nimbies).

jrockway 5y ago
Yeah, that's a good assessment. It is troubled, but I don't think you can do big projects without trouble. Think about how high tensions can get when planning a two week software engineering sprint. Now imagine a project that's a million times bigger than that, where people will have their houses torn down. There's going to be some trouble. What is amazing that despite the trouble, some progress is being made. (There are lots of things working against CAHSR. The route has been chosen politically rather than to minimize SFO-LAX travel times. Given infinite budget, you travelers on that route don't want to go through Bakersfield, as it's out of the way. And, the SFO/LAX city pair is already not a particularly optimal pair, it is kind of reaching the high end of distances that make high-speed rail the best travel option. That's why I look at Texas Central and Brightline for models of what to do in the future. Texas Central is a really good city pairing, in a region where their 16 lane highways can't handle the traffic volume. But I temper my enthusiasm in that not a lot of construction work has been done; I can't find any updates newer than September 2021 when the CEO said pessimistically that there is only a 50/50 chance that construction will start in the next 6 months. We're near the end of those 6 months.)
ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
At this point I’m just glad Caltrain is finally getting electrified.
- Gibbon1 5y ago
  I just saw a blurb that they've just finished pouring the last foundation for the overhead catenary system. Currently half of the work going on right now is grade separation that includes both the future high speed rail line and the current freight rail line. So there is some method to their madness. The grade separation provides immediate benefits. Lot of info linked here https://www.buildhsr.com/ https://www.buildhsr.com/