3 ms·

In many districts you can't fail a student (banned), you can't hold them back and you can't discipline. This does make things harder and disrupts learning for

In many districts you can't fail a student (banned), you can't hold them back and you can't discipline. This does make things harder and disrupts learning for others.

pupppet 5y ago
This is the real issue. Zero repercussions. It also affects the quality of teachers. What stops some teachers from sleepwalking their way through the year if they know their students will move forward regardless of how poorly they’ve been taught.
Ekaros 5y ago
If students can't be held back why do we even test them? Ofc, it is helpful to show them their knowledge, but I think that is quite early... Or to discover where to try to improve process, but I think fear of being held back and losing the group could be reasonable tool to get at least part of the students to learn.
- watwut 5y ago
  Afaik, it did not worked like that. Repeating grades did not lead to better success, which was one reason for ending it. The age difference between failed kid and younger kids in next class did not made anything easier either. And kids at the very bottom have better and more support available now. It is not perfect, it often sux and is not available to everybody. I definitely don't mean to say it is somehow super great. But the kids at the bottom with cognitively issues or impulsive control issues have better chance to learn more then used to be normal.
  - esyir 5y ago
    I'm not sure how bumping them up a grade is any better. It's that not just a massive waste of time for everyone involved?
    - maximus-decimus 5y ago
      My take on it is they basically give up on them and get them out of the system faster that way. If the kids failed either way, it's cheaper to make them fail in 12 years than 13 or 14.
  - onphonenow 5y ago
    When I was growing up you were bumped up still (to stay with age group), but you took basic courses until you were back up to speed, then you were moved to standard, then advanced, then AP. I sucked at AP, but standard / advanced were good. The AP kids must have studied so hard - I bombed those classes when I tried them. But that also was seen as discriminatory I think because it wasn't that easy to move out of basic etc once you were there so I think they stopped this as well - I think system was called tracking.
s1artibartfast 5y ago
Reminds me of this story[1] of Baltimore students repeatedly advanced despite passing essentially no classes. >According to transcripts, France's son passed only three classes in his four years of high school, earning a 0.13 grade point average. What's worse is that her son's GPA puts him near the top half of this class. He was also late or absent to school 359 days. https://www.willitsnews.com/2013/01/26/firing-a-tenured-teacher-in-california-can-be-tough/ https://www.willitsnews.com/2013/01/26/firing-a-tenured-teac...
- onphonenow 5y ago
  In SF they've been having kids get A's despite no attendance. And the attendance figures were being fudged as well. Reason was they've had so many subs they don't know who is in class / just give everyone an A.

In many districts you can't fail a student (banned), you can't hold them back and you can't discipline. This does make things harder and disrupts learning for others.

pupppet 5y ago

This is the real issue. Zero repercussions. It also affects the quality of teachers. What stops some teachers from sleepwalking their way through the year if they know their students will move forward regardless of how poorly they’ve been taught.

Ekaros 5y ago

If students can't be held back why do we even test them? Ofc, it is helpful to show them their knowledge, but I think that is quite early... Or to discover where to try to improve process, but I think fear of being held back and losing the group could be reasonable tool to get at least part of the students to learn.

watwut 5y ago
Afaik, it did not worked like that. Repeating grades did not lead to better success, which was one reason for ending it. The age difference between failed kid and younger kids in next class did not made anything easier either. And kids at the very bottom have better and more support available now. It is not perfect, it often sux and is not available to everybody. I definitely don't mean to say it is somehow super great. But the kids at the bottom with cognitively issues or impulsive control issues have better chance to learn more then used to be normal.
- esyir 5y ago
  I'm not sure how bumping them up a grade is any better. It's that not just a massive waste of time for everyone involved?
  - maximus-decimus 5y ago
    My take on it is they basically give up on them and get them out of the system faster that way. If the kids failed either way, it's cheaper to make them fail in 12 years than 13 or 14.
- onphonenow 5y ago
  When I was growing up you were bumped up still (to stay with age group), but you took basic courses until you were back up to speed, then you were moved to standard, then advanced, then AP. I sucked at AP, but standard / advanced were good. The AP kids must have studied so hard - I bombed those classes when I tried them. But that also was seen as discriminatory I think because it wasn't that easy to move out of basic etc once you were there so I think they stopped this as well - I think system was called tracking.

s1artibartfast 5y ago

Reminds me of this story[1] of Baltimore students repeatedly advanced despite passing essentially no classes. >According to transcripts, France's son passed only three classes in his four years of high school, earning a 0.13 grade point average. What's worse is that her son's GPA puts him near the top half of this class. He was also late or absent to school 359 days. https://www.willitsnews.com/2013/01/26/firing-a-tenured-teacher-in-california-can-be-tough/ https://www.willitsnews.com/2013/01/26/firing-a-tenured-teac...

onphonenow 5y ago
In SF they've been having kids get A's despite no attendance. And the attendance figures were being fudged as well. Reason was they've had so many subs they don't know who is in class / just give everyone an A.