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Europe: The end of the privacy of digital correspondence
- stjohnswarts 5y agoIs this possibly the source of Apple's sudden need to "scan" user documents last year? The Europeans pressured them and they tried to get ahead of the game?
- jsnell 5y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28115343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28115343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28139889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28139889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27753727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27753727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27736435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27736435
- tut-urut-utut 5y agoPlease don’t kill the discussion by putting previous links. Given the recent synchronised push from both sides of Atlantic to review end to end encryption and limit privacy this submission deserves a new discussion.
- Etheryte 5y agoWhy do you think previous related threads "kill the discussion"? If anything, more background information and context should be a good thing, no?
- snthd 5y agoI agree. The links are particularly useful as they don't come up with the 'past' link. Here's recent discussion on the UK push: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fnoplacetohide.org.uk https://hn.algolia.com/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fnoplacetohide.org.uk
- KennyBlanken 5y agoThis is something dang himself does many times...
- dang 5y agoHN's approach to this has been the same for many years: when a story has had significant attention within the last year or so, we bury reposts as dupes. That doesn't mean it isn't an important story! This is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html When a story is a major ongoing topic (as this one may be), we treat it as a fresh story each time significant new information (SNI) comes up. See https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22significant%20new%20information%22%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... for past explanations. If someone can point to SNI in this case, I'd be happy to take a look.
- dang 5y agoThanks! Macroexpanded: New EU Law Removes Digital Privacy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28139889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28139889 - Aug 2021 (167 comments) Messaging and chat control - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28115343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28115343 - Aug 2021 (317 comments) European Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communication - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27753727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27753727 - July 2021 (415 comments) Indiscriminate messaging and chatcontrol: Last chance to protest - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27736435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27736435 - July 2021 (104 comments)
- benjamir 5y agoMeanwhile the former pope and his bishop protected known child abusers who continued to abuse children. Aiding a criminal is itself a crime in Germany -- I would go for "Täterschaft durch Unterlassen"; without their enablement, no further abuse could have happened. But the prosecutors seem to be to involved with the church shrug Instead of going for the known abusers the general population gets the STASI 3.x treatment. Some days I wish the EU dissolves into irrelevancy. Barely more than a fishbowl full off awkward, self righteous bureaucrats. Then again, the scavengers and populists are already waiting and are the guaranteed ticket to hell during lifetime.
- pessimizer 5y agoThat's just how things happen. In the US, we filled a database with the DNA of everyone arrested for (not convicted of) any slightly serious crime, and justified it by the search for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_James_DeAngelo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_James_DeAngelo, who of course turned out to be a cop who wasn't subject to DNA collection. The internet is a distraction. Meet with people face-to-face, until the switch is flipped that tracks and monitors that, too.
- aftbit 5y ago>who of course turned out to be a cop who wasn't subject to DNA collection. He was fired as a cop for shoplifting (according to wikipedia) so why wasn't his DNA collected then?
- turbinerneiter 5y agoVon der Leyen keeps her SMS correspondence with Pfizer management secret, but my correspondence with my girlfriend somehow has to become public record (via anti-encryption laws and the resulting data leaks).
- peoplefromibiza 5y agosecrecy and privacy are not the same thing SMSs have never been secret, but are still private .
- stjohnswarts 5y agoSure, but secrecy certainly permits privacy. Privacy can be forced (encryption) or permitted (must get a warrant otherwise private). One cannot deny the relationship.
- peoplefromibiza 5y agoLaws permit privacy. Secrecy doesn't imply privacy, you can do things secretly, like for example bring weed with you in a secret pocket, that doesn't mean police can't stop you and do a search on you if a dog smells it. They can't ask you to reveal who you're casually talking on the phone though without a warrant, even if the conversation is not secret. You can use encryption to enforce secrecy, that's true, but not privacy. If you are constantly messaging with a known drug dealer or someone wiretapped, even if the conversation is secret, your right to privacy goes out the window. Privacy means you close the door when you go to the bathroom, secrecy means you don't tell anybody where are you going and why.
- dijit 5y agoDoes Von Der Leyen support this bill? It’s a little moot if she doesn’t.
- hendi_ 5y agoYes, she does. (Of course.)
- dijit 5y agoPrimary source: https://www.politico.eu/article/european-parliament-platforms-child-sexual-abuse-reporting-law/ https://www.politico.eu/article/european-parliament-platform... Which is a lot more dry and clear than what has been posted. We could all seek to be more emotionally disengaged if we want to have actual debates. One of the things stated, for example is that the bill will not stand up in a court of law; and MEPs were displeased at the “moral blackmail” of the bill: basically “you don’t want to protect children? You must hate children!” EDIT: what’s with all the low effort euro-skepticism in this thread? Surely we can do better.
- raverbashing 5y agoAh yes but the blog author wouldn't get as much attention or clicks without his clickbait headlines and continuous rehashing of the subject The subject is important but given the way the blog author handles it I doubt he's presenting it in an honest manner. Edit: this doesn't even look like a blog post, but more of a generic page with info (and undated) - so not something that brings new information
- turbinerneiter 5y agoI mean maybe use some basic media competence. This isn't a blog author, this is a MEP in opposing the bill and rallying his supporters.
- raverbashing 5y ago> a blog author, this is a MEP in opposing the bill and rallying his supporters. I know that, and if he wrote the blog post (which looks like it), then yes, he's the blog author (the blog footer pretty much says so) My criticism remains. Emotional rallies are a poor way of discussing the subject.
- thisisnotatest1 5y ago
- marbu 5y ago
- Ophuscado 5y agoI hope not...
- begueradj 5y agoHitler couldn't dream better
- stjohnswarts 5y agoStazi approved, SS check mark of pride
- peoplefromibiza 5y agohe literally not only imagined it, but did it!
- dogbitestail 5y ago
- collaborative 5y agoI will guess the sum total of replies to emails sent to these addresses: 0
- Asooka 5y agoI wonder if they will be applying a unified definition for child sexual abuse material, or if each service will be free to look for whatever the local jurisdiction deems as such. My country (Bulgaria) doesn't define it per se - all porn is illegal[1], but there is an additional punishment if it involves "a person under the age of 18, or appearing to be such". The parts where our rules notably differ from (as far as I understand them) those of other EU nations are: 1. Transmitting any pornographic material is a crime. Possession is not criminalised (unless of persons under the age of 18, or appearing to be such). 2. Every clause includes the words "of a person", implying that drawings are not subject to them. I don't know enough law to say for sure. 3. The rules against child sexual abuse material specify "person under the age of 18, or appearing to be such ". The latter part seems to not be part of other nations' laws. [1] https://lex.bg/bg/laws/ldoc/1589654529 https://lex.bg/bg/laws/ldoc/1589654529 чл. 159
- manpagereader 5y ago